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Fine, I don't care about defending that point right now, as the main assertion I'm trying to dispel is that somehow schools are unilaterally worse in high densi

Fine, I don't care about defending that point right now, as the main assertion I'm trying to dispel is that somehow schools are unilaterally worse in high density cities. By your own admission, Singapore has vastly superior schools despite having the largest population density in the world. Population density doesn't have an effect on school quality. >Since I live in San Jose, I'd like to see what support you have for this statement. Taxes, regulations, crime, wages...? Regulations. To be specific I'm talking about how housing density affects local businesses and minimum parking requirements for businesses is one of those regulations.

uberman 5y ago
I feel rather confident that public schools in high density America are universally expensive, dilapidated, and crappy. Though to be fair, I only have first hand knowledge of SF, NYC, and Philly. I also have first had experiences with several small town schools in America and while I agree it is a mixed bag, what I can say is that community expectations make or break the school. I have lived in areas where the community had no expectation that their kids attend college and to no surprise, the quality of the school was crap. I currently live in a community that expects all children to go to college and thus the quality of the system is great.
AlbertCory 5y ago
> I'm talking about how housing density affects local businesses and minimum parking requirements for businesses Seriously? You're seriously asserting that small businesses would rather be in SF than in SJ, because of minimum parking? We can do some research on that. I don't think it's going to come out the way you like, though. The research would have to do with cost-of-doing-business, profitability, etc. etc. As for schools & population density: I think you're shifting the goal posts after the game's turned against you. First it was : > In short, in the US, school quality is not a function of density; it's a function of funding. So, just so we're clear: you're giving up on that one?
- nemothekid 5y ago
  >Seriously? You're seriously asserting that small businesses would rather be in SF than in SJ, because of minimum parking? I'm asserting that some types of businesses cannot exist due to the low density requirements due to parking requirements + lack of traffic. Whether any arbitrary local business can exist in SJ and be more profitable is obviously something an individual business owner as to weigh. For example, here is one effect I was talking about how parking regulations affect the types of restaurants you can open: https://twitter.com/BayBetter/status/1306681675301048320 https://twitter.com/BayBetter/status/1306681675301048320 When you look at restaurants in San Jose vs San Francisco I don't think you can argue that density didn't play a factor. >So, just so we're clear: you're giving up on that one? No it's not; I see now you aren't the same poster as GP; the assertion was schools in high density neighborhoods are poor. My response is that there are other, more pertinent factors at play, like funding, that affect school quality and that simply upzoning will not destroy schools. Discussing the minutiae of the return of funding on school performance isn't relevant the topic of high density development.
  - AlbertCory 5y ago
    So it becomes "minutiae" when the facts don't support your argument. I showed in another post how "parking requirements" are a bogus issue, in reality. I can walk (and do so every day with the dog) to a corner mall with two Chinese restaurants, Japanese restaurant, water store, sandwich shop, nail salon, barber shop, florist, watch repair business, dental office, tea business, pizza place, health food store, bike shop, post office, Safeway, IHOP, and Chase bank branch. Plus a very large Chinese restaurant going up where the Rite Aid used to be. All sharing the same parking lot. Is it paradise? No, but some people prefer it to urban squalor.
    - nemothekid 5y ago
      >So it becomes "minutiae" when the facts don't support your argument. You've honed into one small aspect of my argument and ignored your own counter argument that you've made. I don't understand what point you are trying to prove. It's minutiae because, as you've already shown, Singapore has amazing schools while having incredibly high population density. The link between school budgets and performance is not completely divorced as it has been shown within America there is a correlation. However those arguments, and the research behind them are simply not relevant to the current discussion. The claim was schools in dense neighborhoods are worse. I claimed that funding was a far more important factor. You've shown that Singapore has exceptional schools in the densest urban capital. >I can walk (and do so every day with the dog) to a corner mall with two Chinese restaurants, Japanese restaurant, water store, sandwich shop, nail salon, barber shop, florist, watch repair business, dental office, tea business, pizza place, health food store, bike shop, post office, Safeway, IHOP, and Chase bank branch. Plus a very large Chinese restaurant going up where the Rite Aid used to be. It's also snowing in Denver so global warming must not exist. Like seriously, what are you trying to argue here and what does it have to do with high density development? >No, but some people prefer it to urban squalor. Again, there is a mountain of options between San Jose and Manhattan and these cities have existed in Europe for longer than America has been around. To consider a city like Amsterdamn "urban squalor" because they have mutli-family zoning is just ignorant. Children can walk to school in the "urban squalor" of Amsterdam (which is almost 3x as dense as San Jose). San Jose still struggles with having sidewalks in many areas.
AlbertCory 5y ago
Parking: such nonsense. You're reduced to quoting some self-interested tweeter? Let me tell you how small businesses (like sandwich shops or nail salons or tutoring academies) work in San Jose: You find an empty storefront in a strip mall on some street corner. You don't put it in the middle of a busy street like this San Francisco place. If you do, it's probably set back a little from the street with parking in front of it. The strip mall has a large shared parking lot for all the stores, and as long as your shop doesn't have extremely high customer counts, you're good to go. If you're a marijuana dispensary or something high traffic, you may have a problem. Would you like some pictures of little sandwich shops around here?

uberman 5y ago

I feel rather confident that public schools in high density America are universally expensive, dilapidated, and crappy. Though to be fair, I only have first hand knowledge of SF, NYC, and Philly. I also have first had experiences with several small town schools in America and while I agree it is a mixed bag, what I can say is that community expectations make or break the school. I have lived in areas where the community had no expectation that their kids attend college and to no surprise, the quality of the school was crap. I currently live in a community that expects all children to go to college and thus the quality of the system is great.

AlbertCory 5y ago

> I'm talking about how housing density affects local businesses and minimum parking requirements for businesses Seriously? You're seriously asserting that small businesses would rather be in SF than in SJ, because of minimum parking? We can do some research on that. I don't think it's going to come out the way you like, though. The research would have to do with cost-of-doing-business, profitability, etc. etc. As for schools & population density: I think you're shifting the goal posts after the game's turned against you. First it was : > In short, in the US, school quality is not a function of density; it's a function of funding. So, just so we're clear: you're giving up on that one?

nemothekid 5y ago
>Seriously? You're seriously asserting that small businesses would rather be in SF than in SJ, because of minimum parking? I'm asserting that some types of businesses cannot exist due to the low density requirements due to parking requirements + lack of traffic. Whether any arbitrary local business can exist in SJ and be more profitable is obviously something an individual business owner as to weigh. For example, here is one effect I was talking about how parking regulations affect the types of restaurants you can open: https://twitter.com/BayBetter/status/1306681675301048320 https://twitter.com/BayBetter/status/1306681675301048320 When you look at restaurants in San Jose vs San Francisco I don't think you can argue that density didn't play a factor. >So, just so we're clear: you're giving up on that one? No it's not; I see now you aren't the same poster as GP; the assertion was schools in high density neighborhoods are poor. My response is that there are other, more pertinent factors at play, like funding, that affect school quality and that simply upzoning will not destroy schools. Discussing the minutiae of the return of funding on school performance isn't relevant the topic of high density development.
- AlbertCory 5y ago
  So it becomes "minutiae" when the facts don't support your argument. I showed in another post how "parking requirements" are a bogus issue, in reality. I can walk (and do so every day with the dog) to a corner mall with two Chinese restaurants, Japanese restaurant, water store, sandwich shop, nail salon, barber shop, florist, watch repair business, dental office, tea business, pizza place, health food store, bike shop, post office, Safeway, IHOP, and Chase bank branch. Plus a very large Chinese restaurant going up where the Rite Aid used to be. All sharing the same parking lot. Is it paradise? No, but some people prefer it to urban squalor.
  - nemothekid 5y ago
    >So it becomes "minutiae" when the facts don't support your argument. You've honed into one small aspect of my argument and ignored your own counter argument that you've made. I don't understand what point you are trying to prove. It's minutiae because, as you've already shown, Singapore has amazing schools while having incredibly high population density. The link between school budgets and performance is not completely divorced as it has been shown within America there is a correlation. However those arguments, and the research behind them are simply not relevant to the current discussion. The claim was schools in dense neighborhoods are worse. I claimed that funding was a far more important factor. You've shown that Singapore has exceptional schools in the densest urban capital. >I can walk (and do so every day with the dog) to a corner mall with two Chinese restaurants, Japanese restaurant, water store, sandwich shop, nail salon, barber shop, florist, watch repair business, dental office, tea business, pizza place, health food store, bike shop, post office, Safeway, IHOP, and Chase bank branch. Plus a very large Chinese restaurant going up where the Rite Aid used to be. It's also snowing in Denver so global warming must not exist. Like seriously, what are you trying to argue here and what does it have to do with high density development? >No, but some people prefer it to urban squalor. Again, there is a mountain of options between San Jose and Manhattan and these cities have existed in Europe for longer than America has been around. To consider a city like Amsterdamn "urban squalor" because they have mutli-family zoning is just ignorant. Children can walk to school in the "urban squalor" of Amsterdam (which is almost 3x as dense as San Jose). San Jose still struggles with having sidewalks in many areas.

AlbertCory 5y ago

Parking: such nonsense. You're reduced to quoting some self-interested tweeter? Let me tell you how small businesses (like sandwich shops or nail salons or tutoring academies) work in San Jose: You find an empty storefront in a strip mall on some street corner. You don't put it in the middle of a busy street like this San Francisco place. If you do, it's probably set back a little from the street with parking in front of it. The strip mall has a large shared parking lot for all the stores, and as long as your shop doesn't have extremely high customer counts, you're good to go. If you're a marijuana dispensary or something high traffic, you may have a problem. Would you like some pictures of little sandwich shops around here?