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This is almost a non-argument. The world is a complicate place. We prefer that people have basic freedoms, but that's not always going to be the case. Singapo

This is almost a non-argument. The world is a complicate place. We prefer that people have basic freedoms, but that's not always going to be the case. Singapore is an 'autocracy' and so was Korea up until recently. So is Kuwait. We want 'order' first, which can enable a bit of prosperity, and then the slow grind to basic freedoms, it's generally the only path. Almost all revolutions end up with fairly bad tyrannies. Singapore is much better managed that India or Russia, which are both nominal democracies.

datenarsch 5y ago
> We want 'order' first, which can enable a bit of prosperity, and then the slow grind to basic freedoms, it's generally the only path. Why did you invade Iraq then plunging it into total chaos and support ISIS in Syria against the Assad regime? Why did you overthrow the Gaddafi regime in Libya. All of these actions have led to an incredible destabilization and power vaccuum in the entire region, completely destroyed the 'order' you claim you want, led to the rise of terror groups in the region and to a migration crisis of epic proportions.
- post_from_work 5y ago
  >>>Why did you invade Iraq then plunging it into total chaos and support ISIS in Syria against the Assad regime? Why did you overthrow the Gaddafi regime in Libya. Both of these governments were attempting to sell oil for something other than US dollars. Threats to the Petrodollar system are NOT tolerated by the Galactic Empire. https://www.theguardian.com/business/2003/feb/16/iraq.theeuro https://www.theguardian.com/business/2003/feb/16/iraq.theeur... https://www.cse.unsw.edu.au/~norman/CurrentAffairs/DeeperNew.html https://www.cse.unsw.edu.au/~norman/CurrentAffairs/DeeperNew... https://thenewamerican.com/gadhafi-s-gold-money-plan-would-have-devastated-dollar/ https://thenewamerican.com/gadhafi-s-gold-money-plan-would-h... https://www.rt.com/news/economy-oil-gold-libya/ https://www.rt.com/news/economy-oil-gold-libya/
  - jollybean 5y ago
    This is total nonsense. Iraq was already destabilized with daily NATO air missions overhead for a decade, Libya and Syria were plunged into civil war long before any kind of intervention. The Americans don't like it when you mess with their petrodollar, but they're not going to fight a war over it. FYI not answering the complicated questions about 'why USA invaded Iraq', but rather pointing out the 'Petrodollar' conspiracy is a canard. If you're looking for an indirect strategic issue to talk about you can just say 'Energy Security' was a factor, which of course it is, but it's still only one factor.
    - post_from_work 5y ago
      >>>Iraq was already destabilized with daily NATO air missions overhead for a decade Air missions which didn't prevent Saddam from switching from dollars to euros.[1] Clearly a more permanent solution was needed. General Wesley Clark stated as early as September 2001, leveraging post-9/11 sentiment, the US had decided to invade Iraq.[2] >>>Libya and Syria were plunged into civil war long before any kind of intervention The Libyan protests evolved into armed conflict/open revolt roughly around February 21st, when Qaddafi's Air Force bombed Tripoli.[3] Operation Odyssey Dawn began on March 19th, less than 30 days later.[4] In Syria, we didn't take overt interest in regime change, we merely occupied the most oil-rich portions of the country, which the central government lost control of early anyway.[5] Assad can't threaten the Petrodollar if he doesn't have oil to sell, and regime change would mean threatening Russia's access to the warmwater port in Latakia, arguably the reason Russia intervened. That would be an escalation with the Ruskies that I don't think we are prepared to risk. >>>The Americans don't like it when you mess with their petrodollar, but they're not going to fight a war over it Sure we will. Even the French will go to war to prop up the sphere of influence of their currency.[6] [1]https://www.cnn.com/2000/WORLD/meast/10/30/iraq.un.euro.reut/ https://www.cnn.com/2000/WORLD/meast/10/30/iraq.un.euro.reut... [2]https://www.salon.com/2007/10/12/wesley_clark/ https://www.salon.com/2007/10/12/wesley_clark/ [3]https://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/Libyan_Civil_War_(2011) https://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/Libyan_Civil_War_(2011) [4]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Odyssey_Dawn https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Odyssey_Dawn [5] https://www.washingtoninstitute.org/policy-analysis/who-benefits-us-oil-deal-northeast-syria https://www.washingtoninstitute.org/policy-analysis/who-bene... [6]https://wikileaks.org/clinton-emails/emailid/6528 https://wikileaks.org/clinton-emails/emailid/6528
desi_ninja 5y ago
You should recheck your news sources if you think India is nominal democracy. You either have no idea of ground level situations or get fed with media with strong biases which creates such mock worthy statements
- jollybean 5y ago
  India is a nominal democracy because there is excessive institutional corruption within government, which is a form of public disenfranchisement.

datenarsch 5y ago

> We want 'order' first, which can enable a bit of prosperity, and then the slow grind to basic freedoms, it's generally the only path. Why did you invade Iraq then plunging it into total chaos and support ISIS in Syria against the Assad regime? Why did you overthrow the Gaddafi regime in Libya. All of these actions have led to an incredible destabilization and power vaccuum in the entire region, completely destroyed the 'order' you claim you want, led to the rise of terror groups in the region and to a migration crisis of epic proportions.

post_from_work 5y ago
>>>Why did you invade Iraq then plunging it into total chaos and support ISIS in Syria against the Assad regime? Why did you overthrow the Gaddafi regime in Libya. Both of these governments were attempting to sell oil for something other than US dollars. Threats to the Petrodollar system are NOT tolerated by the Galactic Empire. https://www.theguardian.com/business/2003/feb/16/iraq.theeuro https://www.theguardian.com/business/2003/feb/16/iraq.theeur... https://www.cse.unsw.edu.au/~norman/CurrentAffairs/DeeperNew.html https://www.cse.unsw.edu.au/~norman/CurrentAffairs/DeeperNew... https://thenewamerican.com/gadhafi-s-gold-money-plan-would-have-devastated-dollar/ https://thenewamerican.com/gadhafi-s-gold-money-plan-would-h... https://www.rt.com/news/economy-oil-gold-libya/ https://www.rt.com/news/economy-oil-gold-libya/
- jollybean 5y ago
  This is total nonsense. Iraq was already destabilized with daily NATO air missions overhead for a decade, Libya and Syria were plunged into civil war long before any kind of intervention. The Americans don't like it when you mess with their petrodollar, but they're not going to fight a war over it. FYI not answering the complicated questions about 'why USA invaded Iraq', but rather pointing out the 'Petrodollar' conspiracy is a canard. If you're looking for an indirect strategic issue to talk about you can just say 'Energy Security' was a factor, which of course it is, but it's still only one factor.
  - post_from_work 5y ago
    >>>Iraq was already destabilized with daily NATO air missions overhead for a decade Air missions which didn't prevent Saddam from switching from dollars to euros.[1] Clearly a more permanent solution was needed. General Wesley Clark stated as early as September 2001, leveraging post-9/11 sentiment, the US had decided to invade Iraq.[2] >>>Libya and Syria were plunged into civil war long before any kind of intervention The Libyan protests evolved into armed conflict/open revolt roughly around February 21st, when Qaddafi's Air Force bombed Tripoli.[3] Operation Odyssey Dawn began on March 19th, less than 30 days later.[4] In Syria, we didn't take overt interest in regime change, we merely occupied the most oil-rich portions of the country, which the central government lost control of early anyway.[5] Assad can't threaten the Petrodollar if he doesn't have oil to sell, and regime change would mean threatening Russia's access to the warmwater port in Latakia, arguably the reason Russia intervened. That would be an escalation with the Ruskies that I don't think we are prepared to risk. >>>The Americans don't like it when you mess with their petrodollar, but they're not going to fight a war over it Sure we will. Even the French will go to war to prop up the sphere of influence of their currency.[6] [1]https://www.cnn.com/2000/WORLD/meast/10/30/iraq.un.euro.reut/ https://www.cnn.com/2000/WORLD/meast/10/30/iraq.un.euro.reut... [2]https://www.salon.com/2007/10/12/wesley_clark/ https://www.salon.com/2007/10/12/wesley_clark/ [3]https://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/Libyan_Civil_War_(2011) https://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/Libyan_Civil_War_(2011) [4]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Odyssey_Dawn https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Odyssey_Dawn [5] https://www.washingtoninstitute.org/policy-analysis/who-benefits-us-oil-deal-northeast-syria https://www.washingtoninstitute.org/policy-analysis/who-bene... [6]https://wikileaks.org/clinton-emails/emailid/6528 https://wikileaks.org/clinton-emails/emailid/6528

desi_ninja 5y ago

You should recheck your news sources if you think India is nominal democracy. You either have no idea of ground level situations or get fed with media with strong biases which creates such mock worthy statements

jollybean 5y ago
India is a nominal democracy because there is excessive institutional corruption within government, which is a form of public disenfranchisement.