4 ms·

So continuing that, let's say OP moved to a small rural town. 10 years later, the media proclaims the town for best schools, living, etc. and a lot of folks wan

by et-al 5y ago

So continuing that, let's say OP moved to a small rural town. 10 years later, the media proclaims the town for best schools, living, etc. and a lot of folks want to move there and want to build up in OP's backyard. What's OP's course of action now? To move again? I'm not excusing the effects of NIMBYism, but it's natural phenomena for many people and often not about raising property values, but resistance to change--especially as folks age and become less willing to adapt or move elsewhere.

betwixthewires 5y ago
> What's OP's course of action now? To move again? Yes, if that's what I want. It's not really my backyard. it's proverbial, but we can't make the mistake of taking it literally. it's someone else's front yard. I have no say in it. So I have a choice, move somewhere more rural, or enjoy the financial benefit of being an early resident of a growing community. But the onus is always on me, I cannot externalize my preferences onto others unwillingly. There are always decisions to be made, there is always a trade off. You're right about resistance to change. Personally if where I live began to urbanize, I'd leave.
- uberman 5y ago
  I cannot externalize my preferences onto others unwillingly Isn't that exactly what those arguing for higher densities are doing?
  - betwixthewires 5y ago
    No? Telling someone else they can't build an apartment building because they live next to you and you like zoning is externalizing on others unwillingly, telling people they have to commute hours in traffic because you like to see the smoggy sunset from your backyard is externalizing. Letting people build more dense housing in a densely populated area to profit and simultaneously reduce the cost on their own property is not externalizing anything, unless you consider your view of the sky to be your property and you somehow having a say in your neighbor building on his property as he sees fit.
    - uberman 5y ago
      Just flip the coin. telling people they: - have to live next to a skyrise is externalizing. - have to use public transit is externalizing. - can't let their kids get a good education is externalizing. - can't let their kids play safely without adult supervision is externalizing. I'll freely admit zoning laws kind of suck in some instances, but you are going to be hard pressed to find a place that does not have them. In fact, the more dense the housing, the more rigorous the zone laws are likely to be. The reality almost everywhere is that one simply cannot do whatever one pleases with their property including keeping it from the government. So, yes my proverbial view of your smog may well be legally protected and that might suck, but you and I are both also protected from a neighbor converting their property into a toxic waste dump.
- WkndTriathlete 5y ago
  > Yes, if that's what I want. It's not really my backyard. it's proverbial, but we can't make the mistake of taking it literally. it's someone else's front yard. I have no say in it. A century of established case law say otherwise. If a private landowner wants to change the zoning on a parcel of land near established residences and the residences can show decrease in property values as a result of rezoning the courts have consistently awarded financial damages to the owners of the residences from the city that decides to change the zoning.
cheriot 5y ago
Generally it's the suburbs immediately outside a prosperous city that start to urbanize. Genuinely rural areas in America often have the opposite problem - they shrink.

by et-al 5y ago

betwixthewires 5y ago

> What's OP's course of action now? To move again? Yes, if that's what I want. It's not really my backyard. it's proverbial, but we can't make the mistake of taking it literally. it's someone else's front yard. I have no say in it. So I have a choice, move somewhere more rural, or enjoy the financial benefit of being an early resident of a growing community. But the onus is always on me, I cannot externalize my preferences onto others unwillingly. There are always decisions to be made, there is always a trade off. You're right about resistance to change. Personally if where I live began to urbanize, I'd leave.

uberman 5y ago
I cannot externalize my preferences onto others unwillingly Isn't that exactly what those arguing for higher densities are doing?
- betwixthewires 5y ago
  No? Telling someone else they can't build an apartment building because they live next to you and you like zoning is externalizing on others unwillingly, telling people they have to commute hours in traffic because you like to see the smoggy sunset from your backyard is externalizing. Letting people build more dense housing in a densely populated area to profit and simultaneously reduce the cost on their own property is not externalizing anything, unless you consider your view of the sky to be your property and you somehow having a say in your neighbor building on his property as he sees fit.
  - uberman 5y ago
    Just flip the coin. telling people they: - have to live next to a skyrise is externalizing. - have to use public transit is externalizing. - can't let their kids get a good education is externalizing. - can't let their kids play safely without adult supervision is externalizing. I'll freely admit zoning laws kind of suck in some instances, but you are going to be hard pressed to find a place that does not have them. In fact, the more dense the housing, the more rigorous the zone laws are likely to be. The reality almost everywhere is that one simply cannot do whatever one pleases with their property including keeping it from the government. So, yes my proverbial view of your smog may well be legally protected and that might suck, but you and I are both also protected from a neighbor converting their property into a toxic waste dump.
WkndTriathlete 5y ago
> Yes, if that's what I want. It's not really my backyard. it's proverbial, but we can't make the mistake of taking it literally. it's someone else's front yard. I have no say in it. A century of established case law say otherwise. If a private landowner wants to change the zoning on a parcel of land near established residences and the residences can show decrease in property values as a result of rezoning the courts have consistently awarded financial damages to the owners of the residences from the city that decides to change the zoning.

cheriot 5y ago

Generally it's the suburbs immediately outside a prosperous city that start to urbanize. Genuinely rural areas in America often have the opposite problem - they shrink.