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Hot take: All routers completely suck right now, and most of them are built to spy on your network at worst and accidentally expose you to cyberattacks at best.

Hot take: All routers completely suck right now, and most of them are built to spy on your network at worst and accidentally expose you to cyberattacks at best. There are two choices, the way I see it: 1. Invest in a decent router (probably $150-200 at least) and throw openwrt on it. You'll need something with serious CPU beef because openwrt relies more on software than hardware, and most routers use hardware for QoS etc., hence the price tag. You'll also need to actually understand the multitude of settings offered by openwrt if you care at all about security or performance -- this is nontrivial if you aren't already a network engineer. 2. Buy a used Apple Airport router. The last generation support AC wifi, which is... basically as fast as the best things out there right now, barring wifi 6E. On the plus side: this comes with mostly sane defaults and good performance, I easily get 600+ mbps up/down on my gigabit internet. On the downside... I think you can only configure airport routers through macOS (and a mostly-dead iOS app), and they don't let you configure all the settings you might want. A fair tradeoff for good, non-footgun defaults IMO, but YMMV. There's also the third option of creating some bespoke raspberry pi + wifi hardware solution for yourself, but that's likely to get you punched by your flatmates when it inevitably reboots incorrectly during a power outage or overheats or whatever and suddenly you need to spend 2 hours debugging problems without a working wireless connection and everyone else is pissed they can't use the internet. Unless, of course, you're a brilliant network engineer who would never make a silly mistake or have a bug in their custom router solution. Which I guess is why most people use Google or Amazon spyware for internet in their homes.

ok_dad 5y ago
Thanks for that, it is what I figured. I have a really old, nice, router running one of the WRT-like OSes and I really, really don't want to do that anymore. I have a small family and do not want to mess with this stuff. I might just bite the bullet and hook up a few more of the Google routers. I hate using Google, and don't trust them, but I probably trust them more than most other brands in this space. Also, I can't argue that I don't get good performance from their stuff. The only problem is, if I turn off the cloud features with this thing, I can't even do port forwarding or anything! Who the F puts that behind a cloud? Anyways, thanks for the answer.
- dont__panic 5y ago
  Yeah, I've been frustrated with the router space for a while recently so I figured you might benefit from my research (and likely bias as well). Too bad others in this thread downvoted me without responding, though -- if anybody can recommend a decent answer to this question that I didn't cover or explain why I'm wrong, I'm happy to admit that. I would really like there to be a decent router out there for my use case. The biggest reason I don't use a Google router or something of that ilk is exactly what you mentioned in this comment: I don't want basic functionality like port forwarding locked behind some cloud account that I might have to pay for monthly eventually (or might get shut down). At least my current hardware will likely work perfectly until the hardware fails.
  - yardstick 5y ago
    What’s your opinion on Mikrotik devices?
    - dont__panic 5y ago
      I looked into them a while back, and they do generally seem to be capable devices. I think they fall into the too-footgun-y category I mention above, though -- if you don't already know a lot about networks, you can easily leave gaping holes in your network security since there are so many options to screw up. They're a bit on the expensive side, too, and honestly even trying to figure out which router to buy was enough of a nightmare to dissuade me.
  - cycomanic 5y ago
    I think the reason why you got downvoted is because you made broad sweeping statements without anything to back it up. It also does not reflect my experience, the amount of routers running open source systems that one can buy is much larger than it has ever been (I pointed out some options further up the thread), ASUS uses dd-wrt IIRC and others. Also the openwrt/pfsense/opnsense solutions are not really slower than commercial offerings, many offerings now are capable of running OpenVPN at reasonable speeds, in particular if your CPU has AES-NI support. The way it was written your statement sounded like a Apple shill really.
Integer 5y ago
You could try Turris Omnia, it has beefy hardware and sane defaults. Or some other solutions with OpenWRT pre-installed.
- dont__panic 5y ago
  Thanks for this suggestion, I'll have to keep an eye on this the next time I need a router. Definitely on the pricey side, but given that it's fully open source, that's a con I can live with.
ValentineC 5y ago
> 1. Invest in a decent router (probably $150-200 at least) and throw openwrt on it. You'll need something with serious CPU beef because openwrt relies more on software than hardware, and most routers use hardware for QoS etc., hence the price tag. You'll also need to actually understand the multitude of settings offered by openwrt if you care at all about security or performance -- this is nontrivial if you aren't already a network engineer. Why not OPNsense on an old x86 box? > but that's likely to get you punched by your flatmates when it inevitably reboots incorrectly during a power outage or overheats or whatever and suddenly you need to spend 2 hours debugging problems without a working wireless connection and everyone else is pissed they can't use the internet. I thought for a couple of years that my OPNsense setup would pass the Family Acceptance Factor, but one day (a few months back!) it spontaneously wiped itself of its settings — requiring me to plug in a monitor, reconfigure it to boot, and restore my settings from a backup. My (very annoyed) family had to ask why we had to jump through hoops, and not use a simple consumer router like everyone else. I'd imagine that OpenWrt would be the same, or worse.
- quesera 5y ago
  In my (extensive) experience on several different hardware platforms, OpenWRT is far more stable and featureful than stock firmware. In the worst case, stock firmware would require a hard reset (power cycle) every few weeks. I've had OpenWRT firmware running without interruption (on UPS) for years at a time.
- sliken 5y ago
  Old x86 boxes tend to be hot, having moving parts (fans), large, and noisy. Sure some folks have a large house, basement, and don't care. For many a nice new reliable (with warranty) widget that burns little power, is silent, has no moving parts, and is tiny/easily mounted is a pretty big win. The edgerouter is pretty good, I have a 6P, but the ubiquiti trend towards subscriptions, cloud management, etc is pretty worrying. Given that I'd likely keep my next router for 5+ years, I'm hoping for 2.5gbit (if not 10gbit), 4 ports, IPv6 aware (I get a /60 from my ISP), VLANs (so I can keep the random consumer crap segregated off), etc. I had settled on the hardkernel with 6x2.5 Gbit ports, but it's discontinued. My Ubiquiti 6xp does a great job, I can keep the config file in git, I can assign a IPv6 /64 per port, run custom firewall rules to redirect all DNS to my DNS server (allowing blocking youtube, web games, etc), etc. I block all remote access to my router and from the consumer crap VLAN with watches, TVs, AV receivers, game consoles, etc. Here's hoping someone ships similar, have my eye on the Mirotek RB5009UG+S+IN, has 1 10G, 1 2.5G, and a bunch of 1G. I'd need a second vlan capable switch with a 10G uplink for my uses, but it's workable. Hoping for similar with a few more faster ports. Even just 2x10G would make a big difference.
Peanuts99 5y ago
Instead of buying out of date kit, just buy a second hand Ruckus AP and call it a day. No telemetry and you can set it up in 10 minutes. They're enterprise grade and will last 10 years or more.
- joshu 5y ago
  also about twice as fast ubiquiti in my experience

ok_dad 5y ago

Thanks for that, it is what I figured. I have a really old, nice, router running one of the WRT-like OSes and I really, really don't want to do that anymore. I have a small family and do not want to mess with this stuff. I might just bite the bullet and hook up a few more of the Google routers. I hate using Google, and don't trust them, but I probably trust them more than most other brands in this space. Also, I can't argue that I don't get good performance from their stuff. The only problem is, if I turn off the cloud features with this thing, I can't even do port forwarding or anything! Who the F puts that behind a cloud? Anyways, thanks for the answer.

dont__panic 5y ago
Yeah, I've been frustrated with the router space for a while recently so I figured you might benefit from my research (and likely bias as well). Too bad others in this thread downvoted me without responding, though -- if anybody can recommend a decent answer to this question that I didn't cover or explain why I'm wrong, I'm happy to admit that. I would really like there to be a decent router out there for my use case. The biggest reason I don't use a Google router or something of that ilk is exactly what you mentioned in this comment: I don't want basic functionality like port forwarding locked behind some cloud account that I might have to pay for monthly eventually (or might get shut down). At least my current hardware will likely work perfectly until the hardware fails.
- yardstick 5y ago
  What’s your opinion on Mikrotik devices?
  - dont__panic 5y ago
    I looked into them a while back, and they do generally seem to be capable devices. I think they fall into the too-footgun-y category I mention above, though -- if you don't already know a lot about networks, you can easily leave gaping holes in your network security since there are so many options to screw up. They're a bit on the expensive side, too, and honestly even trying to figure out which router to buy was enough of a nightmare to dissuade me.
- cycomanic 5y ago
  I think the reason why you got downvoted is because you made broad sweeping statements without anything to back it up. It also does not reflect my experience, the amount of routers running open source systems that one can buy is much larger than it has ever been (I pointed out some options further up the thread), ASUS uses dd-wrt IIRC and others. Also the openwrt/pfsense/opnsense solutions are not really slower than commercial offerings, many offerings now are capable of running OpenVPN at reasonable speeds, in particular if your CPU has AES-NI support. The way it was written your statement sounded like a Apple shill really.

Integer 5y ago

You could try Turris Omnia, it has beefy hardware and sane defaults. Or some other solutions with OpenWRT pre-installed.

dont__panic 5y ago
Thanks for this suggestion, I'll have to keep an eye on this the next time I need a router. Definitely on the pricey side, but given that it's fully open source, that's a con I can live with.

ValentineC 5y ago

> 1. Invest in a decent router (probably $150-200 at least) and throw openwrt on it. You'll need something with serious CPU beef because openwrt relies more on software than hardware, and most routers use hardware for QoS etc., hence the price tag. You'll also need to actually understand the multitude of settings offered by openwrt if you care at all about security or performance -- this is nontrivial if you aren't already a network engineer. Why not OPNsense on an old x86 box? > but that's likely to get you punched by your flatmates when it inevitably reboots incorrectly during a power outage or overheats or whatever and suddenly you need to spend 2 hours debugging problems without a working wireless connection and everyone else is pissed they can't use the internet. I thought for a couple of years that my OPNsense setup would pass the Family Acceptance Factor, but one day (a few months back!) it spontaneously wiped itself of its settings — requiring me to plug in a monitor, reconfigure it to boot, and restore my settings from a backup. My (very annoyed) family had to ask why we had to jump through hoops, and not use a simple consumer router like everyone else. I'd imagine that OpenWrt would be the same, or worse.

quesera 5y ago
In my (extensive) experience on several different hardware platforms, OpenWRT is far more stable and featureful than stock firmware. In the worst case, stock firmware would require a hard reset (power cycle) every few weeks. I've had OpenWRT firmware running without interruption (on UPS) for years at a time.
sliken 5y ago
Old x86 boxes tend to be hot, having moving parts (fans), large, and noisy. Sure some folks have a large house, basement, and don't care. For many a nice new reliable (with warranty) widget that burns little power, is silent, has no moving parts, and is tiny/easily mounted is a pretty big win. The edgerouter is pretty good, I have a 6P, but the ubiquiti trend towards subscriptions, cloud management, etc is pretty worrying. Given that I'd likely keep my next router for 5+ years, I'm hoping for 2.5gbit (if not 10gbit), 4 ports, IPv6 aware (I get a /60 from my ISP), VLANs (so I can keep the random consumer crap segregated off), etc. I had settled on the hardkernel with 6x2.5 Gbit ports, but it's discontinued. My Ubiquiti 6xp does a great job, I can keep the config file in git, I can assign a IPv6 /64 per port, run custom firewall rules to redirect all DNS to my DNS server (allowing blocking youtube, web games, etc), etc. I block all remote access to my router and from the consumer crap VLAN with watches, TVs, AV receivers, game consoles, etc. Here's hoping someone ships similar, have my eye on the Mirotek RB5009UG+S+IN, has 1 10G, 1 2.5G, and a bunch of 1G. I'd need a second vlan capable switch with a 10G uplink for my uses, but it's workable. Hoping for similar with a few more faster ports. Even just 2x10G would make a big difference.

Peanuts99 5y ago

Instead of buying out of date kit, just buy a second hand Ruckus AP and call it a day. No telemetry and you can set it up in 10 minutes. They're enterprise grade and will last 10 years or more.

joshu 5y ago
also about twice as fast ubiquiti in my experience