5 ms·

Foreign spies are caught and punished/executed probably every year more or less. And governments have virtually no incentive to admit "hey my spy got caught by

Foreign spies are caught and punished/executed probably every year more or less. And governments have virtually no incentive to admit "hey my spy got caught by the enemy". Ditto for stealth submarines.

kcb 5y ago
It's really hard for me to believe the USN allows countries to blow up their warships then has the courtesy to hide it domestically. The whole purpose of the USN is a show of force and power projection. If countries are allowed to take that sort of action without immediate retaliation that is all gone.
- pphysch 5y ago
  Why is that hard to believe? Firstly, they didn't blow it up. If the Chinese story is true, they surgically disabled it. Either way, no American blood was shed. Secondly, the modus operandi of the contemporary Pentagon is walking a fine line between a) inflating foreign threats to secure Congressional funding and b) deflating any challenges to the perception of American military supremacy. Defending Americans from actual threats is a distant follower.
  - kcb 5y ago
    > This was an intentional placement. This locations was as far away as possible > from the nuclear power plant for a close local directed-explosion attack. > It was then ignited, and ended up causing serious damage to the bow of the boat > and a complete loss of sonar sensing ability. Surgically disabled by blowing it up.
  - dragonwriter 5y ago
    > If the Chinese story is true It is not “the Chinese story”; were it the actual official Chinese story we wouldn't be getting it by this circuitous route, we’d get it from Chinese state media, both in Chinese for domestic consumption and English (etc.) for international consumption. There are many criticisms you can make of the PRC, but “they are incapable of assuring that their official position is heard clearly and loudly” is...not among them.
    - pphysch 5y ago
      > There are many criticisms you can make of the PRC, but “they are incapable of assuring that their official position is heard clearly and loudly” is...not among them. What an incredible claim. Americans think China is literally committing a Holocaust right now. Chinese/Russian media is soft/hard censored on the biggest Western social platforms and official narratives from those governments almost never make it to American/Western ears without massive amounts of spin from Western state/corporate media. Besides, there is a strong explanation for why Beijing didn't broadcast this: they don't want to inflame tensions, especially in the runup to the Olympics.
      - dragonwriter 5y ago
        > Americans think China is literally committing a Holocaust right now Yes, but they aren't exactly unaware that China's official position is that they are not, and the awareness of this official position doesn't come through random minor internet sites reporting “official” accounts machine translated after being received from anonymous friends who got release that were authorized by Beijing. Getting the official story heard loudly and clearly and getting it believed are too very different goals. > Besides, there is a strong explanation for why Beijing didn't broadcast this: they don't want to inflame tensions, especially in the runup to the Olympics. Yes, that's a very plausible reason why, even if this highly improbable story were true, it wouldn't be China's official story right now. It's not, however, even a remotely plausible reason why it would be the official story and simultaneously completely absent from official media and yet still authorized for release via the channel supposedly used here.
        pphysch 5y ago
        Don't confuse "official" with "true". Beijing is happy, officially, to accept Washington's story that they clumsily crashed into a rock. The "true" story is really only relevant to the military planners on both sides. And presently it doesn't serve either of their interests to broadcast it publicly.
        5y ago
- jmnicolas 5y ago
  > then has the courtesy to hide it domestically If you don't hide it, you will be forced to retaliate. Do you start WW3 for material damages because your public opinion's pride has been hurt?
  - kcb 5y ago
    It's not pride that has been hurt...it's a US navy warship being blown up.

kcb 5y ago

It's really hard for me to believe the USN allows countries to blow up their warships then has the courtesy to hide it domestically. The whole purpose of the USN is a show of force and power projection. If countries are allowed to take that sort of action without immediate retaliation that is all gone.

pphysch 5y ago
Why is that hard to believe? Firstly, they didn't blow it up. If the Chinese story is true, they surgically disabled it. Either way, no American blood was shed. Secondly, the modus operandi of the contemporary Pentagon is walking a fine line between a) inflating foreign threats to secure Congressional funding and b) deflating any challenges to the perception of American military supremacy. Defending Americans from actual threats is a distant follower.
- kcb 5y ago
  > This was an intentional placement. This locations was as far away as possible > from the nuclear power plant for a close local directed-explosion attack. > It was then ignited, and ended up causing serious damage to the bow of the boat > and a complete loss of sonar sensing ability. Surgically disabled by blowing it up.
- dragonwriter 5y ago
  > If the Chinese story is true It is not “the Chinese story”; were it the actual official Chinese story we wouldn't be getting it by this circuitous route, we’d get it from Chinese state media, both in Chinese for domestic consumption and English (etc.) for international consumption. There are many criticisms you can make of the PRC, but “they are incapable of assuring that their official position is heard clearly and loudly” is...not among them.
  - pphysch 5y ago
    > There are many criticisms you can make of the PRC, but “they are incapable of assuring that their official position is heard clearly and loudly” is...not among them. What an incredible claim. Americans think China is literally committing a Holocaust right now. Chinese/Russian media is soft/hard censored on the biggest Western social platforms and official narratives from those governments almost never make it to American/Western ears without massive amounts of spin from Western state/corporate media. Besides, there is a strong explanation for why Beijing didn't broadcast this: they don't want to inflame tensions, especially in the runup to the Olympics.
    - dragonwriter 5y ago
      > Americans think China is literally committing a Holocaust right now Yes, but they aren't exactly unaware that China's official position is that they are not, and the awareness of this official position doesn't come through random minor internet sites reporting “official” accounts machine translated after being received from anonymous friends who got release that were authorized by Beijing. Getting the official story heard loudly and clearly and getting it believed are too very different goals. > Besides, there is a strong explanation for why Beijing didn't broadcast this: they don't want to inflame tensions, especially in the runup to the Olympics. Yes, that's a very plausible reason why, even if this highly improbable story were true, it wouldn't be China's official story right now. It's not, however, even a remotely plausible reason why it would be the official story and simultaneously completely absent from official media and yet still authorized for release via the channel supposedly used here.
      - pphysch 5y ago
        Don't confuse "official" with "true". Beijing is happy, officially, to accept Washington's story that they clumsily crashed into a rock. The "true" story is really only relevant to the military planners on both sides. And presently it doesn't serve either of their interests to broadcast it publicly.
        5y ago
jmnicolas 5y ago
> then has the courtesy to hide it domestically If you don't hide it, you will be forced to retaliate. Do you start WW3 for material damages because your public opinion's pride has been hurt?
- kcb 5y ago
  It's not pride that has been hurt...it's a US navy warship being blown up.