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Freedom of speech was also Article 125 of the Soviet constitution. The US First Amendment version is the only one that is worthy of the name.

by _dain_ 5y ago

sneak 5y ago
Don't try to tell that to Julian Assange.
- na85 5y ago
  He's not a US citizen though. Their constitution only applies to them.
  - lazide 5y ago
    FYI - not according to the US constitution. It applies to everyone on US soil, and is supposed to bind the federal gov’t in general in how it acts everywhere. De facto and de jure of course being completely different things.
    - na85 5y ago
      > FYI - not according to the US constitution. It applies to everyone on US soil, and is supposed to bind the federal gov’t in general in how it acts everywhere. Sure but that ship sailed years ago. Their constitution is also supposed to guarantee a right to a fair trial but obviously the legions of drone victims didn't get one.
    - deleted 5y ago
      [deleted]
cycomanic 5y ago
I encourage you to read up on the J.E. Hoover and J. McCarthy on how much the US First Amendment is worth. Or maybe try running a pro ISIS webserver in the US, see how quickly you have the FBI knocking on your door. Let's not even talk about DCMA takedowns etc.. The US ranks lower than Germany in the FH and RWB freedom of the press indices [1], which while not quite the same is highly related to freedom of speech. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Censorship_by_country https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Censorship_by_country
- throw10920 5y ago
  The First Amendment is stronger than any equivalent rule in any other modern country that I'm aware of. The fact that it's been undermined repeatedly, both in the past and the present (due to the recent wave of authoritarianism that has been sweeping US politics, which can be seen clearly on HN itself), doesn't have any bearing on its relative ranking - so, it can suck (or just be a little suboptimal), but still be better than everything else. Moreover, how is DMCA relevant? Copyrighted works are outside the bounds of free speech.
  - t0mas88 5y ago
    Wait, what? How does the fact that it's undermined not have an impact on how useful a US right is to me? DMCA, and in general the US legal system are extremely relevant to me as a user. If I have a theoretical right to free speech, but in practice any big US media company could kill it then I'm much better off in another country where maybe the theoretical right is 10% less but I can actually practically enjoy that right.
- sneak 5y ago
  > Or maybe try running a pro ISIS webserver in the US Bad counterexample? CloudFlare did just that, triggering a strangely pro-censorship round of hacktivism in the form of #OpISIS. https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2015/nov/19/cloudflare-accused-by-anonymous-helping-isis https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2015/nov/19/cloudflar...
  - cycomanic 5y ago
    That's not really running the website though is it? It seems like they run DDOS protection for them which is not really the same.
- _dain_ 5y ago
  Those rankings just encode the political outlook of a certain leftist NGO. In the USA, Neonazi publications are allowed, while in Germany they are illegal. Therefore, the US has a freer press than Germany. Freedom House would disagree, and they are simply wrong.

Freedom of speech was also Article 125 of the Soviet constitution. The US First Amendment version is the only one that is worthy of the name.

by _dain_ 5y ago

Freedom of speech was also Article 125 of the Soviet constitution. The US First Amendment version is the only one that is worthy of the name.

sneak 5y ago

Don't try to tell that to Julian Assange.

na85 5y ago
He's not a US citizen though. Their constitution only applies to them.
- lazide 5y ago
  FYI - not according to the US constitution. It applies to everyone on US soil, and is supposed to bind the federal gov’t in general in how it acts everywhere. De facto and de jure of course being completely different things.
  - na85 5y ago
    > FYI - not according to the US constitution. It applies to everyone on US soil, and is supposed to bind the federal gov’t in general in how it acts everywhere. Sure but that ship sailed years ago. Their constitution is also supposed to guarantee a right to a fair trial but obviously the legions of drone victims didn't get one.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]

cycomanic 5y ago

I encourage you to read up on the J.E. Hoover and J. McCarthy on how much the US First Amendment is worth. Or maybe try running a pro ISIS webserver in the US, see how quickly you have the FBI knocking on your door. Let's not even talk about DCMA takedowns etc.. The US ranks lower than Germany in the FH and RWB freedom of the press indices [1], which while not quite the same is highly related to freedom of speech. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Censorship_by_country https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Censorship_by_country

throw10920 5y ago
The First Amendment is stronger than any equivalent rule in any other modern country that I'm aware of. The fact that it's been undermined repeatedly, both in the past and the present (due to the recent wave of authoritarianism that has been sweeping US politics, which can be seen clearly on HN itself), doesn't have any bearing on its relative ranking - so, it can suck (or just be a little suboptimal), but still be better than everything else. Moreover, how is DMCA relevant? Copyrighted works are outside the bounds of free speech.
- t0mas88 5y ago
  Wait, what? How does the fact that it's undermined not have an impact on how useful a US right is to me? DMCA, and in general the US legal system are extremely relevant to me as a user. If I have a theoretical right to free speech, but in practice any big US media company could kill it then I'm much better off in another country where maybe the theoretical right is 10% less but I can actually practically enjoy that right.
sneak 5y ago
> Or maybe try running a pro ISIS webserver in the US Bad counterexample? CloudFlare did just that, triggering a strangely pro-censorship round of hacktivism in the form of #OpISIS. https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2015/nov/19/cloudflare-accused-by-anonymous-helping-isis https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2015/nov/19/cloudflar...
- cycomanic 5y ago
  That's not really running the website though is it? It seems like they run DDOS protection for them which is not really the same.
_dain_ 5y ago
Those rankings just encode the political outlook of a certain leftist NGO. In the USA, Neonazi publications are allowed, while in Germany they are illegal. Therefore, the US has a freer press than Germany. Freedom House would disagree, and they are simply wrong.