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Yeah…sure…it hit a "seamount" – it's definitely not out-classed and out-matched by Chinese unmanned submarine drones. https://metallicman.com/uss-connecticut-b

by 9999px 5y ago

Yeah…sure…it hit a "seamount" – it's definitely not out-classed and out-matched by Chinese unmanned submarine drones. https://metallicman.com/uss-connecticut-black-operations-submarine-south-china-sea-ram-mountain-what-really-happened/ https://metallicman.com/uss-connecticut-black-operations-sub... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VeJLwUfLcEU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VeJLwUfLcEU

kcb 5y ago
Something doesn't add up here. If it's China's official policy that it blatantly and deliberately attacked a USN warship, why aren't we at war with them? They've never directly attacked any other US ships or planes in the South China Sea.
- pphysch 5y ago
  Foreign spies are caught and punished/executed probably every year more or less. And governments have virtually no incentive to admit "hey my spy got caught by the enemy". Ditto for stealth submarines.
  - kcb 5y ago
    It's really hard for me to believe the USN allows countries to blow up their warships then has the courtesy to hide it domestically. The whole purpose of the USN is a show of force and power projection. If countries are allowed to take that sort of action without immediate retaliation that is all gone.
    - pphysch 5y ago
      Why is that hard to believe? Firstly, they didn't blow it up. If the Chinese story is true, they surgically disabled it. Either way, no American blood was shed. Secondly, the modus operandi of the contemporary Pentagon is walking a fine line between a) inflating foreign threats to secure Congressional funding and b) deflating any challenges to the perception of American military supremacy. Defending Americans from actual threats is a distant follower.
      - kcb 5y ago
        > This was an intentional placement. This locations was as far away as possible > from the nuclear power plant for a close local directed-explosion attack. > It was then ignited, and ended up causing serious damage to the bow of the boat > and a complete loss of sonar sensing ability. Surgically disabled by blowing it up.
      - dragonwriter 5y ago
        > If the Chinese story is true It is not “the Chinese story”; were it the actual official Chinese story we wouldn't be getting it by this circuitous route, we’d get it from Chinese state media, both in Chinese for domestic consumption and English (etc.) for international consumption. There are many criticisms you can make of the PRC, but “they are incapable of assuring that their official position is heard clearly and loudly” is...not among them.
        pphysch 5y ago
        > There are many criticisms you can make of the PRC, but “they are incapable of assuring that their official position is heard clearly and loudly” is...not among them. What an incredible claim. Americans think China is literally committing a Holocaust right now. Chinese/Russian media is soft/hard censored on the biggest Western social platforms and official narratives from those governments almost never make it to American/Western ears without massive amounts of spin from Western state/corporate media. Besides, there is a strong explanation for why Beijing didn't broadcast this: they don't want to inflame tensions, especially in the runup to the Olympics.
        dragonwriter 5y ago
        > Americans think China is literally committing a Holocaust right now Yes, but they aren't exactly unaware that China's official position is that they are not, and the awareness of this official position doesn't come through random minor internet sites reporting “official” accounts machine translated after being received from anonymous friends who got release that were authorized by Beijing. Getting the official story heard loudly and clearly and getting it believed are too very different goals. > Besides, there is a strong explanation for why Beijing didn't broadcast this: they don't want to inflame tensions, especially in the runup to the Olympics. Yes, that's a very plausible reason why, even if this highly improbable story were true, it wouldn't be China's official story right now. It's not, however, even a remotely plausible reason why it would be the official story and simultaneously completely absent from official media and yet still authorized for release via the channel supposedly used here.
    - jmnicolas 5y ago
      > then has the courtesy to hide it domestically If you don't hide it, you will be forced to retaliate. Do you start WW3 for material damages because your public opinion's pride has been hurt?
      - kcb 5y ago
        It's not pride that has been hurt...it's a US navy warship being blown up.
- Wohlf 5y ago
  Because even if true neither country wants to go to war, countries test each other's military responses all the time and it never goes much further than sending in jets/ships to watch each other while some diplomatic phone calls take place.
  - kcb 5y ago
    Blowing up a USN warship is not testing, it's action.
    - jmnicolas 5y ago
      Yes but it wasn't supposed to be there. Are you going to start WW3 for material damages? Even if the entire sub had been destroyed, would you start WW3 for a few hundred people? No. You take the losses, put a brave face and spin a story about navigation error. Then if you think you weren't in the wrong and they need to get a lesson you destroy something of theirs a while later. Btw, I'm not saying that's what's happened. I'm just hypothesizing that in case it happened like that they wouldn't start WW3 over it.
- echelon 5y ago
  We might already be at war, and it seems to be escalating. The Biden admin is growing cold to both China and Russia. They just announced they won't support the 2022 Olympics. Cyber warfare and espionage are reaching new peaks. Russia just blew up a satellite, which caused NASA astronauts to take shelter. Target practice for fog of war. China demonstrated their orbital hypersonics and glide platform, which is hard to track and defend against. Nuclear MAD that defeats US countermeasures. Russia is amassing forces to take over Ukraine and Georgia. China is increasing incursions over Taiwanese airspace. China is delisting from US exchanges. The US pulled out of Afghanistan, freeing up personnel and logistics. The best reason to do this was to prepare for a two front war. They could have otherwise remained deployed indefinitely. Australia and Japan are buffing their navies and warfare capabilities substantially. The US is in the awkward period between upgrading existing systems and designing next generation weapons. We might really go to war in 2022 if China and Russia think they can take Ukraine and Taiwan. A hot war.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
  - pphysch 5y ago
    Let's examine these claims: > The Biden admin is growing cold to both China and Russia. Washington has been cold to both nations for the better part of a decade/century depending on your perspective. > They just announced they won't support the 2022 Olympics. False. Virtually all American athletes are attending. Whether the Biden admin is diplomatically boycotting or wasn't even invited is a matter of perspective. > Cyber warfare and espionage are reaching new peaks. > Russia just blew up a satellite, which caused NASA astronauts to take shelter. Target practice for fog of war. > China demonstrated their orbital hypersonics and glide platform, which is hard to track and defend against. Nuclear MAD that defeats US countermeasures. > Russia is amassing forces to take over Ukraine and Georgia. > China is increasing incursions over Taiwanese airspace. When a historically passive person starts acting assertively, an unscrupulous observer might judge it as aggression. Russia and China are demonstrating that Washington is no longer the undisputed military superpower it once was, that it can't bully anyone it wants. This has critical geopolitical implications but does not necessarily point to an inevitable war. The fact is that USA has hundreds of overseas military bases while Russia and China combined have less than 10. Many of those American bases are on the doorstep of both competitors. Until China is parking carriers in the Gulf of Mexico, it hasn't even begun to reciprocate American military assertiveness/aggression. > China is delisting from US exchanges. ...and relisting on e.g. HKEX which is historically accessible to international investors from America and elsewhere. More likely, Chinese companies are hedging against the collapse of Wall St. (if the Fed raises rates) or the USD (if they don't). > The US is in the awkward period between upgrading existing systems and designing next generation weapons. Like the F35? Pretty sure that failure has nothing to do with "bad timing" and everything to do with the corrupt state of Washington and the Pentagon. > We might really go to war in 2022 if China and Russia think they can take Ukraine and Taiwan. A hot war. Why, though? Whose interests does it really serve?
- dragonwriter 5y ago
  > If it's China's official policy that it blatantly and deliberately attacked a USN warship, why aren't we at war with them? It is not China’s official position, which is why this supposed “official story” is not sourced to any official Chinese media, but to an email, supposedly sent by the author’s anonymous friend, that contains information that was supposedly authorized by Beijing on the “official Chinese story” which nevertheless the PRC has not released through any of its many state controlled media outlets. (It plausibly could have been authorized by Beijing for this exact use: divisive propaganda through multiple steps of deniable cutouts that has nothing to do with either the facts or China’s official public position. Or it could just be an invention of the author, or the author’s anonymous, unaccountable friend.)
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
groby_b 5y ago
The guy running that blog "has been in MAJestic", "which brought you velcro, LEDs, nanotechnology" Uhuh. Right there, a highly trustworthy source.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
toxik 5y ago
I think the US misses the cold war and is trying its damn best to find a new adversary to compete against. It’s been said before, winning the cold war made the US arrogant and complacent. Nb I’m talking about countries as if they were people, I do not mean that people in these countries are thinking these things.

by 9999px 5y ago

kcb 5y ago

Something doesn't add up here. If it's China's official policy that it blatantly and deliberately attacked a USN warship, why aren't we at war with them? They've never directly attacked any other US ships or planes in the South China Sea.

pphysch 5y ago
Foreign spies are caught and punished/executed probably every year more or less. And governments have virtually no incentive to admit "hey my spy got caught by the enemy". Ditto for stealth submarines.
- kcb 5y ago
  It's really hard for me to believe the USN allows countries to blow up their warships then has the courtesy to hide it domestically. The whole purpose of the USN is a show of force and power projection. If countries are allowed to take that sort of action without immediate retaliation that is all gone.
  - pphysch 5y ago
    Why is that hard to believe? Firstly, they didn't blow it up. If the Chinese story is true, they surgically disabled it. Either way, no American blood was shed. Secondly, the modus operandi of the contemporary Pentagon is walking a fine line between a) inflating foreign threats to secure Congressional funding and b) deflating any challenges to the perception of American military supremacy. Defending Americans from actual threats is a distant follower.
    - kcb 5y ago
      > This was an intentional placement. This locations was as far away as possible > from the nuclear power plant for a close local directed-explosion attack. > It was then ignited, and ended up causing serious damage to the bow of the boat > and a complete loss of sonar sensing ability. Surgically disabled by blowing it up.
    - dragonwriter 5y ago
      > If the Chinese story is true It is not “the Chinese story”; were it the actual official Chinese story we wouldn't be getting it by this circuitous route, we’d get it from Chinese state media, both in Chinese for domestic consumption and English (etc.) for international consumption. There are many criticisms you can make of the PRC, but “they are incapable of assuring that their official position is heard clearly and loudly” is...not among them.
      - pphysch 5y ago
        > There are many criticisms you can make of the PRC, but “they are incapable of assuring that their official position is heard clearly and loudly” is...not among them. What an incredible claim. Americans think China is literally committing a Holocaust right now. Chinese/Russian media is soft/hard censored on the biggest Western social platforms and official narratives from those governments almost never make it to American/Western ears without massive amounts of spin from Western state/corporate media. Besides, there is a strong explanation for why Beijing didn't broadcast this: they don't want to inflame tensions, especially in the runup to the Olympics.
        dragonwriter 5y ago
        > Americans think China is literally committing a Holocaust right now Yes, but they aren't exactly unaware that China's official position is that they are not, and the awareness of this official position doesn't come through random minor internet sites reporting “official” accounts machine translated after being received from anonymous friends who got release that were authorized by Beijing. Getting the official story heard loudly and clearly and getting it believed are too very different goals. > Besides, there is a strong explanation for why Beijing didn't broadcast this: they don't want to inflame tensions, especially in the runup to the Olympics. Yes, that's a very plausible reason why, even if this highly improbable story were true, it wouldn't be China's official story right now. It's not, however, even a remotely plausible reason why it would be the official story and simultaneously completely absent from official media and yet still authorized for release via the channel supposedly used here.
  - jmnicolas 5y ago
    > then has the courtesy to hide it domestically If you don't hide it, you will be forced to retaliate. Do you start WW3 for material damages because your public opinion's pride has been hurt?
    - kcb 5y ago
      It's not pride that has been hurt...it's a US navy warship being blown up.
Wohlf 5y ago
Because even if true neither country wants to go to war, countries test each other's military responses all the time and it never goes much further than sending in jets/ships to watch each other while some diplomatic phone calls take place.
- kcb 5y ago
  Blowing up a USN warship is not testing, it's action.
  - jmnicolas 5y ago
    Yes but it wasn't supposed to be there. Are you going to start WW3 for material damages? Even if the entire sub had been destroyed, would you start WW3 for a few hundred people? No. You take the losses, put a brave face and spin a story about navigation error. Then if you think you weren't in the wrong and they need to get a lesson you destroy something of theirs a while later. Btw, I'm not saying that's what's happened. I'm just hypothesizing that in case it happened like that they wouldn't start WW3 over it.
echelon 5y ago
We might already be at war, and it seems to be escalating. The Biden admin is growing cold to both China and Russia. They just announced they won't support the 2022 Olympics. Cyber warfare and espionage are reaching new peaks. Russia just blew up a satellite, which caused NASA astronauts to take shelter. Target practice for fog of war. China demonstrated their orbital hypersonics and glide platform, which is hard to track and defend against. Nuclear MAD that defeats US countermeasures. Russia is amassing forces to take over Ukraine and Georgia. China is increasing incursions over Taiwanese airspace. China is delisting from US exchanges. The US pulled out of Afghanistan, freeing up personnel and logistics. The best reason to do this was to prepare for a two front war. They could have otherwise remained deployed indefinitely. Australia and Japan are buffing their navies and warfare capabilities substantially. The US is in the awkward period between upgrading existing systems and designing next generation weapons. We might really go to war in 2022 if China and Russia think they can take Ukraine and Taiwan. A hot war.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- pphysch 5y ago
  Let's examine these claims: > The Biden admin is growing cold to both China and Russia. Washington has been cold to both nations for the better part of a decade/century depending on your perspective. > They just announced they won't support the 2022 Olympics. False. Virtually all American athletes are attending. Whether the Biden admin is diplomatically boycotting or wasn't even invited is a matter of perspective. > Cyber warfare and espionage are reaching new peaks. > Russia just blew up a satellite, which caused NASA astronauts to take shelter. Target practice for fog of war. > China demonstrated their orbital hypersonics and glide platform, which is hard to track and defend against. Nuclear MAD that defeats US countermeasures. > Russia is amassing forces to take over Ukraine and Georgia. > China is increasing incursions over Taiwanese airspace. When a historically passive person starts acting assertively, an unscrupulous observer might judge it as aggression. Russia and China are demonstrating that Washington is no longer the undisputed military superpower it once was, that it can't bully anyone it wants. This has critical geopolitical implications but does not necessarily point to an inevitable war. The fact is that USA has hundreds of overseas military bases while Russia and China combined have less than 10. Many of those American bases are on the doorstep of both competitors. Until China is parking carriers in the Gulf of Mexico, it hasn't even begun to reciprocate American military assertiveness/aggression. > China is delisting from US exchanges. ...and relisting on e.g. HKEX which is historically accessible to international investors from America and elsewhere. More likely, Chinese companies are hedging against the collapse of Wall St. (if the Fed raises rates) or the USD (if they don't). > The US is in the awkward period between upgrading existing systems and designing next generation weapons. Like the F35? Pretty sure that failure has nothing to do with "bad timing" and everything to do with the corrupt state of Washington and the Pentagon. > We might really go to war in 2022 if China and Russia think they can take Ukraine and Taiwan. A hot war. Why, though? Whose interests does it really serve?
dragonwriter 5y ago
> If it's China's official policy that it blatantly and deliberately attacked a USN warship, why aren't we at war with them? It is not China’s official position, which is why this supposed “official story” is not sourced to any official Chinese media, but to an email, supposedly sent by the author’s anonymous friend, that contains information that was supposedly authorized by Beijing on the “official Chinese story” which nevertheless the PRC has not released through any of its many state controlled media outlets. (It plausibly could have been authorized by Beijing for this exact use: divisive propaganda through multiple steps of deniable cutouts that has nothing to do with either the facts or China’s official public position. Or it could just be an invention of the author, or the author’s anonymous, unaccountable friend.)

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

groby_b 5y ago

The guy running that blog "has been in MAJestic", "which brought you velcro, LEDs, nanotechnology" Uhuh. Right there, a highly trustworthy source.

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]

toxik 5y ago

I think the US misses the cold war and is trying its damn best to find a new adversary to compete against. It’s been said before, winning the cold war made the US arrogant and complacent. Nb I’m talking about countries as if they were people, I do not mean that people in these countries are thinking these things.