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Happened again recently [0] "Royal Marines commandos 'dominated' US troops and forced them into a humiliating surrender just days into a mass training exercise

by PKop 5y ago

Happened again recently [0] "Royal Marines commandos 'dominated' US troops and forced them into a humiliating surrender just days into a mass training exercise in the Mojave desert, it has been revealed today. British forces took part in a five-day mock battle at the US Marine Corps' Twentynine Palms base in southern California, one of the largest military training areas in the world, and achieved a decisive victory against their American counterparts. The Royal Marines, along with allied forces from Canada, the Netherlands and the UAE, destroyed or rendered inoperable nearly every US asset and finished the exercise holding more than 65 per cent of the training area, after beginning with less than 20 per cent. Combatants used paintball-style training ammunition, which fires with reduced pressure and velocity, along with hi-tech simulators for heavier firepower like artillery, and live ammo on expansive ranges. Seeing no opportunity for victory, American combatants asked for the exercise to be 'reset' halfway through the five-day exercise, having taken significant casualties from British commandos. " [0] https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10159949/Royal-Marines-commandos-force-troops-humiliating-surrender-training-exercise.html https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10159949/Royal-Mari...

ceejayoz 5y ago
Resets, on their own, aren't an issue, and the goal is for one side to win and learn something. If you can slip two exercises instead of one into a five day visit, why not? There's nothing in that article that asserts the sort of "reset, then script it to ensure the 'good guys' win" scenario from the 2002 case.
- deleted 5y ago
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triactual 5y ago
This does make great propaganda for the Brits until you know that they were actually part of a larger element, under the command of US 7th Marine Regiment. This exercise demonstrated integration of NATO commando forces and modern tactics against outdated tactics.
clutchdude 5y ago
Seeing as anything with a dailymail link makes me suspect, I read the opposite side: https://www.marinecorpstimes.com/news/your-marine-corps/2021/11/04/us-marine-corps-rebuffs-report-that-royal-marines-dominated-in-training-exercise/ https://www.marinecorpstimes.com/news/your-marine-corps/2021... > “ ‘Winners’ are never determined,” Capt. Zachary Colvin, the communications and strategy director with the Marine Air Ground Combat Center, told Military Times in a statement. “This exercise does not provide an opportunity to ‘surrender,’ ‘keep score,’ or ‘reset.’ The objective of the exercise is to heighten unit performance and increase readiness.” https://taskandpurpose.com/voices/us-marines-didnt-surrender-british-training-exercise/ https://taskandpurpose.com/voices/us-marines-didnt-surrender... > In short, among several statements made in the opening four paragraphs of the Telegraph article, none was accurate. I know this because – as they say – I was there.
- Veen 5y ago
  You're right to suspect the Daily Mail, but I'm not sure the Marine Corp Times quoting a Marine Corp PR flack is a particularly unbiased source for this story, either.
KineticLensman 5y ago
> Happened again recently There is no suggestion in the article that the non-US forces were required to operate with their hands tied after the reset in order to allow a US victory. More generally, many exercises consist of multiple 'phases' anyway, which are in effect wholly separate parts of an operation set within the same broad scenario. They might separately test (e.g.) advancing to contact, a contact situation and then some sort of holding operation. Resets are wholly expected: each phase usually starts in a pre-planned state independent of the previous phase. E.g. if a force fails it's objective in the first phase and gets wiped out it will start the second phase in a refreshed state so that the force can train for the second type of activity rather than waste the sometimes significant cost of assembling the exercise in the first place.

by PKop 5y ago

ceejayoz 5y ago

Resets, on their own, aren't an issue, and the goal is for one side to win and learn something. If you can slip two exercises instead of one into a five day visit, why not? There's nothing in that article that asserts the sort of "reset, then script it to ensure the 'good guys' win" scenario from the 2002 case.

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]

triactual 5y ago

This does make great propaganda for the Brits until you know that they were actually part of a larger element, under the command of US 7th Marine Regiment. This exercise demonstrated integration of NATO commando forces and modern tactics against outdated tactics.

clutchdude 5y ago

Seeing as anything with a dailymail link makes me suspect, I read the opposite side: https://www.marinecorpstimes.com/news/your-marine-corps/2021/11/04/us-marine-corps-rebuffs-report-that-royal-marines-dominated-in-training-exercise/ https://www.marinecorpstimes.com/news/your-marine-corps/2021... > “ ‘Winners’ are never determined,” Capt. Zachary Colvin, the communications and strategy director with the Marine Air Ground Combat Center, told Military Times in a statement. “This exercise does not provide an opportunity to ‘surrender,’ ‘keep score,’ or ‘reset.’ The objective of the exercise is to heighten unit performance and increase readiness.” https://taskandpurpose.com/voices/us-marines-didnt-surrender-british-training-exercise/ https://taskandpurpose.com/voices/us-marines-didnt-surrender... > In short, among several statements made in the opening four paragraphs of the Telegraph article, none was accurate. I know this because – as they say – I was there.

Veen 5y ago
You're right to suspect the Daily Mail, but I'm not sure the Marine Corp Times quoting a Marine Corp PR flack is a particularly unbiased source for this story, either.

KineticLensman 5y ago

> Happened again recently There is no suggestion in the article that the non-US forces were required to operate with their hands tied after the reset in order to allow a US victory. More generally, many exercises consist of multiple 'phases' anyway, which are in effect wholly separate parts of an operation set within the same broad scenario. They might separately test (e.g.) advancing to contact, a contact situation and then some sort of holding operation. Resets are wholly expected: each phase usually starts in a pre-planned state independent of the previous phase. E.g. if a force fails it's objective in the first phase and gets wiped out it will start the second phase in a refreshed state so that the force can train for the second type of activity rather than waste the sometimes significant cost of assembling the exercise in the first place.