5 ms·

A good book (very long and highly detailed) is: The Rising Sun: The Decline and Fall of the Japanese Empire, 1936-1945. You can really see how each side wound

A good book (very long and highly detailed) is: The Rising Sun: The Decline and Fall of the Japanese Empire, 1936-1945. You can really see how each side wound up where it did. Neither side wanted war, the Japanese all assumed they would lose, but because of the immediate successes thought maybe they were wrong. Even terrible translations and a lack of understand of different cultures had a large role.

netcan 5y ago
Also, the Japanese didn't really know they were attacking the US soil, so to speak. Hawaii was, ATT, legally similar to the Philippines. Considering Hawaii american soil and the Philippines something else was a retcon.
- NikolaeVarius 5y ago
  What. Such weird re-writing of history. The IJN wanted to destroy as many US Carriers and Battleships as possible. What difference does it make if they thought Hawaii was a territory vs state.
  - netcan 5y ago
    The difference is the expected reaction, probabilities, etc. An attack on US forces in Saudi Arabia today would still be treated severely, but not the same as an attack on Virginia. FDR had to decide how to characterize it. He decided to treat Hawaii as US soil, The Philippines and other territories as less.
    - NikolaeVarius 5y ago
      That doesn't answer the question? The attack was supposed to destroy as many carriers, battleships, fuel depots as possible. Who the hell cares about territory status versus actual military capability?
      - rhino369 5y ago
        The US populace. The Japanese intention was a big blow that would force the US into favorable negotiations. Giving the US a propaganda win by attack our "soil" meant the population was willing to fight a long war that the Japanese knew they couldn't win.
      - netcan 5y ago
        >>Who the hell cares about territory status versus actual military capability? Literally everyone. Welcome to the martial history of earth. Remember 9/11?
- TMWNN 5y ago
  That's not right. The US had no expectation or desire for the Philippines when the war with Spain began in 1898; it ended up with the Philippines (and Puerto Rico and Guam) because Spain was so decisively defeated so quickly that it was willing to give up its entire colonial empire to end the war. The US began discussing when and how to give the Philippines independence within two decades after the 1898 annexation. The Jones Act contemplated independence as early as 1920; the date was pushed back because Filipinos thought that it was too soon. By the attack on Pearl Harbor, 1945 had been legally set as the target date for independence, after a 10-year transition period. Hawaii, by contrast, was contemplated by Americans and Hawaiians as inevitably becoming an American possession long before the 1898 annexation.

netcan 5y ago

Also, the Japanese didn't really know they were attacking the US soil, so to speak. Hawaii was, ATT, legally similar to the Philippines. Considering Hawaii american soil and the Philippines something else was a retcon.

NikolaeVarius 5y ago
What. Such weird re-writing of history. The IJN wanted to destroy as many US Carriers and Battleships as possible. What difference does it make if they thought Hawaii was a territory vs state.
- netcan 5y ago
  The difference is the expected reaction, probabilities, etc. An attack on US forces in Saudi Arabia today would still be treated severely, but not the same as an attack on Virginia. FDR had to decide how to characterize it. He decided to treat Hawaii as US soil, The Philippines and other territories as less.
  - NikolaeVarius 5y ago
    That doesn't answer the question? The attack was supposed to destroy as many carriers, battleships, fuel depots as possible. Who the hell cares about territory status versus actual military capability?
    - rhino369 5y ago
      The US populace. The Japanese intention was a big blow that would force the US into favorable negotiations. Giving the US a propaganda win by attack our "soil" meant the population was willing to fight a long war that the Japanese knew they couldn't win.
    - netcan 5y ago
      >>Who the hell cares about territory status versus actual military capability? Literally everyone. Welcome to the martial history of earth. Remember 9/11?
TMWNN 5y ago
That's not right. The US had no expectation or desire for the Philippines when the war with Spain began in 1898; it ended up with the Philippines (and Puerto Rico and Guam) because Spain was so decisively defeated so quickly that it was willing to give up its entire colonial empire to end the war. The US began discussing when and how to give the Philippines independence within two decades after the 1898 annexation. The Jones Act contemplated independence as early as 1920; the date was pushed back because Filipinos thought that it was too soon. By the attack on Pearl Harbor, 1945 had been legally set as the target date for independence, after a 10-year transition period. Hawaii, by contrast, was contemplated by Americans and Hawaiians as inevitably becoming an American possession long before the 1898 annexation.