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The problem (well, many problems) with that particular conspiracy theory (which is what it is) is that going to war with Japan doesn't mean that the US will ent

The problem (well, many problems) with that particular conspiracy theory (which is what it is) is that going to war with Japan doesn't mean that the US will enter the war against Germany.

wayoutthere 5y ago
It de-facto did; the US had been providing material aid to the British for years and the axis powers had a mutual defense treaty. As soon as the US declared war on Japan, Germany and Italy declared war on the US (meaning they would now be attacking every US ship they saw, civilian or military). This was entirely expected by military leaders at the time and blatantly obvious to even the news media.
- ZanyProgrammer 5y ago
  The point is that Germany was under no obligation to declare war on the United States. What was Japan going to do if they didn't?
  - rkk3 5y ago
    Not only was there no obligation to declare war, but it was Hitler's first formal declaration of war in the conflict! So there was no precedent for expecting him too. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Declarations_of_war_during_World_War_II https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Declarations_of_war_during_Wor...
  - wayoutthere 5y ago
    There had been a low-grade conflict for a few years with German U-boats attacking American ships carrying goods to England. Given that’s how we got drawn into WWI, it was certainly the most likely outcome at the time given our “special relationship” with England.
bena 5y ago
Japan's attack prompted the U.S. to declare war on Japan. That declaration prompted the other Axis powers to declare war on the U.S. It's plausible in terms of cause and effect. The "if-this-then-that"s follow pretty well. However, counting on something like Pearl Harbor is pants on head moronic. Japan shipped the majority of its fleet across the Pacific to hit a single target. If the U.S. was counting on an attack, they probably weren't counting on an attack of that scale. Which is poor planning. And what happens if the Japanese never attack? Over time, the U.S. would have entered the war, just like it did with World War I. Eventually, trade would have been hindered or too many U.S. ships would have been incidental casualties. The U.S. consistently thought that being across an ocean on either side protected it from being affected by European/Asian affairs and was consistently proven wrong.
- AnimalMuppet 5y ago
  > That declaration prompted the other Axis powers to declare war on the U.S. That was Hitler's single biggest error.
  - _dw7s 5y ago
    That's extremely debatable and a very US-centric point of view. The general consensus is that Hitler's single biggest error was the invasion of the Soviet Union.
    - thejohnconway 5y ago
      As a primary war aim, I'm not sure you could call the invasion of the Soviet Union a strategic error. The whole war was an error, therefore Hitler's biggest error was the invasion of Poland.
    - AnimalMuppet 5y ago
      I'd place that as his second biggest error. And yet... Stalin was going to attack Hitler eventually, maybe 1942 or 1943. So the pre-emptive attack has it's virtues. Could he have conquered England in time to get be ready for war with Russia when it came? And, could Russia have done as well as they did without US materiel? (I freely acknowledge that Russia did most of the bleeding in World War II. I don't want to minimize that at all. But US materiel was also essential to them.)

The problem (well, many problems) with that particular conspiracy theory (which is what it is) is that going to war with Japan doesn't mean that the US will enter the war against Germany.

wayoutthere 5y ago

It de-facto did; the US had been providing material aid to the British for years and the axis powers had a mutual defense treaty. As soon as the US declared war on Japan, Germany and Italy declared war on the US (meaning they would now be attacking every US ship they saw, civilian or military). This was entirely expected by military leaders at the time and blatantly obvious to even the news media.

ZanyProgrammer 5y ago
The point is that Germany was under no obligation to declare war on the United States. What was Japan going to do if they didn't?
- rkk3 5y ago
  Not only was there no obligation to declare war, but it was Hitler's first formal declaration of war in the conflict! So there was no precedent for expecting him too. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Declarations_of_war_during_World_War_II https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Declarations_of_war_during_Wor...
- wayoutthere 5y ago
  There had been a low-grade conflict for a few years with German U-boats attacking American ships carrying goods to England. Given that’s how we got drawn into WWI, it was certainly the most likely outcome at the time given our “special relationship” with England.

bena 5y ago

Japan's attack prompted the U.S. to declare war on Japan. That declaration prompted the other Axis powers to declare war on the U.S. It's plausible in terms of cause and effect. The "if-this-then-that"s follow pretty well. However, counting on something like Pearl Harbor is pants on head moronic. Japan shipped the majority of its fleet across the Pacific to hit a single target. If the U.S. was counting on an attack, they probably weren't counting on an attack of that scale. Which is poor planning. And what happens if the Japanese never attack? Over time, the U.S. would have entered the war, just like it did with World War I. Eventually, trade would have been hindered or too many U.S. ships would have been incidental casualties. The U.S. consistently thought that being across an ocean on either side protected it from being affected by European/Asian affairs and was consistently proven wrong.

AnimalMuppet 5y ago
> That declaration prompted the other Axis powers to declare war on the U.S. That was Hitler's single biggest error.
- _dw7s 5y ago
  That's extremely debatable and a very US-centric point of view. The general consensus is that Hitler's single biggest error was the invasion of the Soviet Union.
  - thejohnconway 5y ago
    As a primary war aim, I'm not sure you could call the invasion of the Soviet Union a strategic error. The whole war was an error, therefore Hitler's biggest error was the invasion of Poland.
  - AnimalMuppet 5y ago
    I'd place that as his second biggest error. And yet... Stalin was going to attack Hitler eventually, maybe 1942 or 1943. So the pre-emptive attack has it's virtues. Could he have conquered England in time to get be ready for war with Russia when it came? And, could Russia have done as well as they did without US materiel? (I freely acknowledge that Russia did most of the bleeding in World War II. I don't want to minimize that at all. But US materiel was also essential to them.)