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The biggest case against crypto seems to be proof of work is inherently bad, because wasting power is bad for the environment. This completely side steps the fa

The biggest case against crypto seems to be proof of work is inherently bad, because wasting power is bad for the environment. This completely side steps the fact that the entire world is moving towards carbon neutrality in electricity generation, in which case power consumption will no longer be an environmental issue. I'm yet to hear a convincing argument against proof of work under the assumption of carbon neutral electricity generation.

isoprophlex 5y ago
The sheer wastefulness of it. Can you see the objection in making a million cookies (completely carbon neutral of course), and throwing 999.999 of them away? POW is that, but worse.
arcticbull 5y ago
No, it doesn't. Every TWh wasted on proof of work delays decarbonizing the rest of the economy. There's no benefit to anyone to build a whole ton of solar and wind capacity then literally wasting it on a sudoku puzzle of global scale. That doesn't help. If anything it hurts because it generates e-waste. 27 thousand tons of e-waste per year. [1] E-waste without a disposal strategy, that gets buried or burned or dumped on poor countries. 97% of all bitcoin miners will never mine a block in their entire useful lives. They will be manufactured, plugged in, they'll sit there, desperately guessing, never guess right, and be thrown out. [1] https://digiconomist.net/bitcoin-energy-consumption https://digiconomist.net/bitcoin-energy-consumption
Nursie 5y ago
> in which case power consumption will no longer be an environmental issue. But it is right now. We don't live in a world with carbon neutral power generation. We're not there. PoW is even encouraging people to bring fossil-fuel based generation back online just for mining and making the transition to low-carbon economies slower. > I'm yet to hear a convincing argument against proof of work under the assumption of carbon neutral electricity generation. Yeah, let's have that argument when we're closer to actually having that. Oh, and before you say "Increased demand will get us there sooner"... no, it won't, we already have a huge amount of demand that can't be met, it's making things worse.
furry-worry 5y ago
See rest of article. Only paragraph 3 is about proof of work; 4-10 are arguments unrelated to environmental impact.
matheusmoreira 5y ago
We simply need ways to use the heat generated by miners for useful purposes. That way the power used to generate that heat will not be wasted.
- oblio 5y ago
  * left as an exercise for the reader.
  - matheusmoreira 5y ago
    Not at all. There seems to be many products in the market for heating up stuff using miners. I just didn't want to advertise.
    - oblio 5y ago
      Yeah, but are they reliable? Cost effective? Easy to deploy? In short, can they compete with traditional heating? Radiators, in floor heating, heat pumps, etc. I doubt it.
      - matheusmoreira 5y ago
        I don't know for sure. I'd like to try it out myself.
malermeister 5y ago
>the entire world is moving towards carbon neutrality in electricity generation Yes, and increasing energy demand for crypto is slowing down that move towards carbon neutrality. If you have more demand, you need more carbon neutral energy generation until you can be fully neutral.

isoprophlex 5y ago

The sheer wastefulness of it. Can you see the objection in making a million cookies (completely carbon neutral of course), and throwing 999.999 of them away? POW is that, but worse.

arcticbull 5y ago

No, it doesn't. Every TWh wasted on proof of work delays decarbonizing the rest of the economy. There's no benefit to anyone to build a whole ton of solar and wind capacity then literally wasting it on a sudoku puzzle of global scale. That doesn't help. If anything it hurts because it generates e-waste. 27 thousand tons of e-waste per year. [1] E-waste without a disposal strategy, that gets buried or burned or dumped on poor countries. 97% of all bitcoin miners will never mine a block in their entire useful lives. They will be manufactured, plugged in, they'll sit there, desperately guessing, never guess right, and be thrown out. [1] https://digiconomist.net/bitcoin-energy-consumption https://digiconomist.net/bitcoin-energy-consumption

Nursie 5y ago

> in which case power consumption will no longer be an environmental issue. But it is right now. We don't live in a world with carbon neutral power generation. We're not there. PoW is even encouraging people to bring fossil-fuel based generation back online just for mining and making the transition to low-carbon economies slower. > I'm yet to hear a convincing argument against proof of work under the assumption of carbon neutral electricity generation. Yeah, let's have that argument when we're closer to actually having that. Oh, and before you say "Increased demand will get us there sooner"... no, it won't, we already have a huge amount of demand that can't be met, it's making things worse.

furry-worry 5y ago

See rest of article. Only paragraph 3 is about proof of work; 4-10 are arguments unrelated to environmental impact.

matheusmoreira 5y ago

We simply need ways to use the heat generated by miners for useful purposes. That way the power used to generate that heat will not be wasted.

oblio 5y ago
* left as an exercise for the reader.
- matheusmoreira 5y ago
  Not at all. There seems to be many products in the market for heating up stuff using miners. I just didn't want to advertise.
  - oblio 5y ago
    Yeah, but are they reliable? Cost effective? Easy to deploy? In short, can they compete with traditional heating? Radiators, in floor heating, heat pumps, etc. I doubt it.
    - matheusmoreira 5y ago
      I don't know for sure. I'd like to try it out myself.

malermeister 5y ago

>the entire world is moving towards carbon neutrality in electricity generation Yes, and increasing energy demand for crypto is slowing down that move towards carbon neutrality. If you have more demand, you need more carbon neutral energy generation until you can be fully neutral.