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> I have to hire people from France if they’re qualified, Keep this in mind. > but I’m also allowed to protest the French government’s policies on basically a

> I have to hire people from France if they’re qualified, Keep this in mind. > but I’m also allowed to protest the French government’s policies on basically anything. So are you allowed to protest the French government by boycotting French companies? Ie. not doing business with French people? The first half of your sentence is directly at odds with the second. How do you actually boycott France if not by applying the boycott to it's people? The Israeli boycott isn't simply saying you don't agree with their government, it's actively boycotting companies run by Israeli Jews and not hiring Israeli Jews.

istjohn 5y ago
> The Israeli boycott isn't simply saying you don't agree with their government, it's actively boycotting companies run by Israeli Jews and not hiring Israeli Jews. That's simply not true. The Texas law does not say anything about boycotts against Jews. And BDS is modeled after the successful Apartheid boycotts, which were boycotts of South Africa, not boycotts of companies run by White South Africans.
- Mikeb85 5y ago
  Read the BDS website. In the FAQ section they say "nearly all" Israeli companies are complicit with crimes against Palestinians. They essentially cast such a wide net that the actual result is discrimination against all Israeli Jewish-run companies.
- AzzieElbab 5y ago
  “ And BDS is modeled after the successful Apartheid boycotts” except that there is no Apartheid is the state of Israel. There is an ongoing conflict and occupation in the Palestinian territories but there is no Apartheid in Israel itself where about a quarter of population is Arab. BDS intentionally squashes two problems into one to draw analogies
  - ComputerGuru 5y ago
    Arab-Israelis are second class citizens of Israel. Israel, with or without the West Bank, is absolutely an apartheid state. https://www.waronwant.org/news-analysis/israeli-apartheid-factsheet https://www.waronwant.org/news-analysis/israeli-apartheid-fa...
    - AzzieElbab 5y ago
      Is this article supposed to prove my point or yours? I read it and saw no examples of supposed apartheid in the state of Israel. The article intentionally mashes Israel and occupied territories together.
  - sofixa 5y ago
    Does an Israeli Arab, or worse, a Palestinian Arab, have the same rights as an Israeli Jew? Does the Israeli constitution say it's a country for Jews? Are the people in Gaza living in what amounts to an open air prison? Are Palestinian getting expelled from their land for resettlement by Jews? No, yes, yes and yes. It's hard to argue that's seriously different than apartheid ( except that black South Africans weren't generally confined to an open air prison, and expelled from their land for resettlement by whites).
    - AzzieElbab 5y ago
      1 - Can you give a specific example of a right that Arab Israeli citizens are missing but in your opinion are entitled to? 2 - Israel is a Jewish state just like Italy is a Christian state, and Iraq is a Muslim state. So what, given all citizens have equal rights? wrt apartheid claims, Israel is at war with both Gaza and West Bank. West Bank is partially occupied because there is no will on either side to come up with a permanent peace agreement. Gaza is in perpetual armed conflict with Israel as per Hamas(ruling party of Gaza) founding chapter, there is no peace between the two, only temporarily cease fires. Is blockade a valuable war tactic?
      - sofixa 5y ago
        I'm sorry, but Italy is not a Christian state. The majority of the population is Christian, but it's not like Israel or Iran where the religion is enshrined in the basic law of the country, and the government and state's legitimacy are based in that religion. Specifically, in countries like this, non-believers don't have the same rights as believers, either explicitly or implicitly (like marriage rights for mixed couples in Israel, or that Arabs get expelled for their lands to be resettled). If I'm not mistaken, the only country considered developed which has such a close and explicit relationship between the state and a religion is Israel. All the rest are developing Muslim countries. > wrt apartheid claims, Israel is at war with both Gaza and West Bank. Not really, for Israel to be at war with them they'd have to recognise their independence, which they don't :) And there can't be a permanent peace agreement while Israel claims things Palestinians can't give them ( like the entirety of Jerusalem). A blockade is a valuable war tactic, dubious morally ( civilians suffer indiscriminately), but as mentioned before Israel is not at war with Gaza, and an open air prison with atrocious conditions, more resembling a concentration camp than a counter under blockade as previously known.
pydry 5y ago
>The Israeli boycott isn't simply saying you don't agree with their government, it's actively boycotting companies run by Israeli Jews Conflating the behavior of "Jews" with the behavior of the "State of Israel" is racist. You just did that. He didnt. Neither did BDS.
- Mikeb85 5y ago
  Yes it is. Read the BDS website. They advocate boycotting "nearly" every Israeli company. > Virtually all Israeli companies are complicit to some degree in Israel’s system of occupation and apartheid. From https://bdsmovement.net/get-involved/what-to-boycott https://bdsmovement.net/get-involved/what-to-boycott Last dropdown link at the bottom of the page.
  - malermeister 5y ago
    You just did it again. Israeli != Jew. There's plenty of Muslim, Christian and secular Israelis. Stop conflating religion and nationality.
  - pydry 5y ago
    You are still deliberately conflating race and state. We both know that calling a boycott of "nearly every American" company an "attack on the white race" would be a racist wolf whistle, and not a particularly subtle one. Yours is no different.
  - mattzito 5y ago
    So - let's say that a business owner in Texas thinks BDS is at best misguided, and at worst anti-semitic, and does not want to align themselves with them. However, they also believe that the Israeli government is creating a humanitarian crisis and wants to protest, however symbolically, so they decide they're not going to do business with any Israeli company who directly does business with the Israeli government. In this case, they're not part of BDS, they are boycotting based on their sincere beliefs, and this law constrains their speech regardless. It's clear that BDS is the precipitating cause of this law, and so it's reasonable to look at BDS as the way that this was put into place, but the law itself doesn't have anything to do with BDS, and so it's not relevant to talk about BDS in the context of its effects on people today.
mattzito 5y ago
Yes, you are allowed to protest the French government by boycotting French companies. The courts in this country have recognized boycotts as a protected form of political speech. You still aren’t allowed to discriminate against individuals, but the courts have recognized that collective action to encourage political change is a form of protest and free speech. I find BDS problematic, but saying you can’t boycott a group of businesses for political reasons is anathema to the spirit of free speech and protest. For the same reason,’it is perfectly fine to boycott Saudi Arabian businesses for their national political policies, even though in practice that means not doing business with Saudi Muslims.

istjohn 5y ago

> The Israeli boycott isn't simply saying you don't agree with their government, it's actively boycotting companies run by Israeli Jews and not hiring Israeli Jews. That's simply not true. The Texas law does not say anything about boycotts against Jews. And BDS is modeled after the successful Apartheid boycotts, which were boycotts of South Africa, not boycotts of companies run by White South Africans.

Mikeb85 5y ago
Read the BDS website. In the FAQ section they say "nearly all" Israeli companies are complicit with crimes against Palestinians. They essentially cast such a wide net that the actual result is discrimination against all Israeli Jewish-run companies.
AzzieElbab 5y ago
“ And BDS is modeled after the successful Apartheid boycotts” except that there is no Apartheid is the state of Israel. There is an ongoing conflict and occupation in the Palestinian territories but there is no Apartheid in Israel itself where about a quarter of population is Arab. BDS intentionally squashes two problems into one to draw analogies
- ComputerGuru 5y ago
  Arab-Israelis are second class citizens of Israel. Israel, with or without the West Bank, is absolutely an apartheid state. https://www.waronwant.org/news-analysis/israeli-apartheid-factsheet https://www.waronwant.org/news-analysis/israeli-apartheid-fa...
  - AzzieElbab 5y ago
    Is this article supposed to prove my point or yours? I read it and saw no examples of supposed apartheid in the state of Israel. The article intentionally mashes Israel and occupied territories together.
- sofixa 5y ago
  Does an Israeli Arab, or worse, a Palestinian Arab, have the same rights as an Israeli Jew? Does the Israeli constitution say it's a country for Jews? Are the people in Gaza living in what amounts to an open air prison? Are Palestinian getting expelled from their land for resettlement by Jews? No, yes, yes and yes. It's hard to argue that's seriously different than apartheid ( except that black South Africans weren't generally confined to an open air prison, and expelled from their land for resettlement by whites).
  - AzzieElbab 5y ago
    1 - Can you give a specific example of a right that Arab Israeli citizens are missing but in your opinion are entitled to? 2 - Israel is a Jewish state just like Italy is a Christian state, and Iraq is a Muslim state. So what, given all citizens have equal rights? wrt apartheid claims, Israel is at war with both Gaza and West Bank. West Bank is partially occupied because there is no will on either side to come up with a permanent peace agreement. Gaza is in perpetual armed conflict with Israel as per Hamas(ruling party of Gaza) founding chapter, there is no peace between the two, only temporarily cease fires. Is blockade a valuable war tactic?
    - sofixa 5y ago
      I'm sorry, but Italy is not a Christian state. The majority of the population is Christian, but it's not like Israel or Iran where the religion is enshrined in the basic law of the country, and the government and state's legitimacy are based in that religion. Specifically, in countries like this, non-believers don't have the same rights as believers, either explicitly or implicitly (like marriage rights for mixed couples in Israel, or that Arabs get expelled for their lands to be resettled). If I'm not mistaken, the only country considered developed which has such a close and explicit relationship between the state and a religion is Israel. All the rest are developing Muslim countries. > wrt apartheid claims, Israel is at war with both Gaza and West Bank. Not really, for Israel to be at war with them they'd have to recognise their independence, which they don't :) And there can't be a permanent peace agreement while Israel claims things Palestinians can't give them ( like the entirety of Jerusalem). A blockade is a valuable war tactic, dubious morally ( civilians suffer indiscriminately), but as mentioned before Israel is not at war with Gaza, and an open air prison with atrocious conditions, more resembling a concentration camp than a counter under blockade as previously known.

pydry 5y ago

>The Israeli boycott isn't simply saying you don't agree with their government, it's actively boycotting companies run by Israeli Jews Conflating the behavior of "Jews" with the behavior of the "State of Israel" is racist. You just did that. He didnt. Neither did BDS.

Mikeb85 5y ago
Yes it is. Read the BDS website. They advocate boycotting "nearly" every Israeli company. > Virtually all Israeli companies are complicit to some degree in Israel’s system of occupation and apartheid. From https://bdsmovement.net/get-involved/what-to-boycott https://bdsmovement.net/get-involved/what-to-boycott Last dropdown link at the bottom of the page.
- malermeister 5y ago
  You just did it again. Israeli != Jew. There's plenty of Muslim, Christian and secular Israelis. Stop conflating religion and nationality.
- pydry 5y ago
  You are still deliberately conflating race and state. We both know that calling a boycott of "nearly every American" company an "attack on the white race" would be a racist wolf whistle, and not a particularly subtle one. Yours is no different.
- mattzito 5y ago
  So - let's say that a business owner in Texas thinks BDS is at best misguided, and at worst anti-semitic, and does not want to align themselves with them. However, they also believe that the Israeli government is creating a humanitarian crisis and wants to protest, however symbolically, so they decide they're not going to do business with any Israeli company who directly does business with the Israeli government. In this case, they're not part of BDS, they are boycotting based on their sincere beliefs, and this law constrains their speech regardless. It's clear that BDS is the precipitating cause of this law, and so it's reasonable to look at BDS as the way that this was put into place, but the law itself doesn't have anything to do with BDS, and so it's not relevant to talk about BDS in the context of its effects on people today.

mattzito 5y ago

Yes, you are allowed to protest the French government by boycotting French companies. The courts in this country have recognized boycotts as a protected form of political speech. You still aren’t allowed to discriminate against individuals, but the courts have recognized that collective action to encourage political change is a form of protest and free speech. I find BDS problematic, but saying you can’t boycott a group of businesses for political reasons is anathema to the spirit of free speech and protest. For the same reason,’it is perfectly fine to boycott Saudi Arabian businesses for their national political policies, even though in practice that means not doing business with Saudi Muslims.