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Oof. I’m very sympathetic to the complexities around the BDS movement, but this is a pretty challenging take to get behind. Discrimination against blacks is il

Oof. I’m very sympathetic to the complexities around the BDS movement, but this is a pretty challenging take to get behind. Discrimination against blacks is illegal in the context of denying individuals things like employment, access to housing and medical care, shopping, etc. You have to show that the individual or business has specifically taken action in some way to deny one or more individuals their rights. In fact, the same rules apply to discrimination based on religion, or national origin or background. So anyone who has discriminated against someone who is Jewish or from Israel is subject to similar liability. But nowhere in any of these laws does it say that a business has to promise to never protest or disagree with the country that one of those groups come from. I have to hire people from France if they’re qualified, but I’m also allowed to protest the French government’s policies on basically anything. If the law from this article was applied to, say, Saudi Arabia or Mexico, would we be comfortable supporting it?

Mikeb85 5y ago
> I have to hire people from France if they’re qualified, Keep this in mind. > but I’m also allowed to protest the French government’s policies on basically anything. So are you allowed to protest the French government by boycotting French companies? Ie. not doing business with French people? The first half of your sentence is directly at odds with the second. How do you actually boycott France if not by applying the boycott to it's people? The Israeli boycott isn't simply saying you don't agree with their government, it's actively boycotting companies run by Israeli Jews and not hiring Israeli Jews.
- istjohn 5y ago
  > The Israeli boycott isn't simply saying you don't agree with their government, it's actively boycotting companies run by Israeli Jews and not hiring Israeli Jews. That's simply not true. The Texas law does not say anything about boycotts against Jews. And BDS is modeled after the successful Apartheid boycotts, which were boycotts of South Africa, not boycotts of companies run by White South Africans.
  - Mikeb85 5y ago
    Read the BDS website. In the FAQ section they say "nearly all" Israeli companies are complicit with crimes against Palestinians. They essentially cast such a wide net that the actual result is discrimination against all Israeli Jewish-run companies.
  - AzzieElbab 5y ago
    “ And BDS is modeled after the successful Apartheid boycotts” except that there is no Apartheid is the state of Israel. There is an ongoing conflict and occupation in the Palestinian territories but there is no Apartheid in Israel itself where about a quarter of population is Arab. BDS intentionally squashes two problems into one to draw analogies
    - ComputerGuru 5y ago
      Arab-Israelis are second class citizens of Israel. Israel, with or without the West Bank, is absolutely an apartheid state. https://www.waronwant.org/news-analysis/israeli-apartheid-factsheet https://www.waronwant.org/news-analysis/israeli-apartheid-fa...
      - AzzieElbab 5y ago
        Is this article supposed to prove my point or yours? I read it and saw no examples of supposed apartheid in the state of Israel. The article intentionally mashes Israel and occupied territories together.
    - sofixa 5y ago
      Does an Israeli Arab, or worse, a Palestinian Arab, have the same rights as an Israeli Jew? Does the Israeli constitution say it's a country for Jews? Are the people in Gaza living in what amounts to an open air prison? Are Palestinian getting expelled from their land for resettlement by Jews? No, yes, yes and yes. It's hard to argue that's seriously different than apartheid ( except that black South Africans weren't generally confined to an open air prison, and expelled from their land for resettlement by whites).
- pydry 5y ago
  >The Israeli boycott isn't simply saying you don't agree with their government, it's actively boycotting companies run by Israeli Jews Conflating the behavior of "Jews" with the behavior of the "State of Israel" is racist. You just did that. He didnt. Neither did BDS.
  - Mikeb85 5y ago
    Yes it is. Read the BDS website. They advocate boycotting "nearly" every Israeli company. > Virtually all Israeli companies are complicit to some degree in Israel’s system of occupation and apartheid. From https://bdsmovement.net/get-involved/what-to-boycott https://bdsmovement.net/get-involved/what-to-boycott Last dropdown link at the bottom of the page.
    - malermeister 5y ago
      You just did it again. Israeli != Jew. There's plenty of Muslim, Christian and secular Israelis. Stop conflating religion and nationality.
    - pydry 5y ago
      You are still deliberately conflating race and state. We both know that calling a boycott of "nearly every American" company an "attack on the white race" would be a racist wolf whistle, and not a particularly subtle one. Yours is no different.
    - mattzito 5y ago
      So - let's say that a business owner in Texas thinks BDS is at best misguided, and at worst anti-semitic, and does not want to align themselves with them. However, they also believe that the Israeli government is creating a humanitarian crisis and wants to protest, however symbolically, so they decide they're not going to do business with any Israeli company who directly does business with the Israeli government. In this case, they're not part of BDS, they are boycotting based on their sincere beliefs, and this law constrains their speech regardless. It's clear that BDS is the precipitating cause of this law, and so it's reasonable to look at BDS as the way that this was put into place, but the law itself doesn't have anything to do with BDS, and so it's not relevant to talk about BDS in the context of its effects on people today.
- mattzito 5y ago
  Yes, you are allowed to protest the French government by boycotting French companies. The courts in this country have recognized boycotts as a protected form of political speech. You still aren’t allowed to discriminate against individuals, but the courts have recognized that collective action to encourage political change is a form of protest and free speech. I find BDS problematic, but saying you can’t boycott a group of businesses for political reasons is anathema to the spirit of free speech and protest. For the same reason,’it is perfectly fine to boycott Saudi Arabian businesses for their national political policies, even though in practice that means not doing business with Saudi Muslims.

Mikeb85 5y ago

> I have to hire people from France if they’re qualified, Keep this in mind. > but I’m also allowed to protest the French government’s policies on basically anything. So are you allowed to protest the French government by boycotting French companies? Ie. not doing business with French people? The first half of your sentence is directly at odds with the second. How do you actually boycott France if not by applying the boycott to it's people? The Israeli boycott isn't simply saying you don't agree with their government, it's actively boycotting companies run by Israeli Jews and not hiring Israeli Jews.

istjohn 5y ago
> The Israeli boycott isn't simply saying you don't agree with their government, it's actively boycotting companies run by Israeli Jews and not hiring Israeli Jews. That's simply not true. The Texas law does not say anything about boycotts against Jews. And BDS is modeled after the successful Apartheid boycotts, which were boycotts of South Africa, not boycotts of companies run by White South Africans.
- Mikeb85 5y ago
  Read the BDS website. In the FAQ section they say "nearly all" Israeli companies are complicit with crimes against Palestinians. They essentially cast such a wide net that the actual result is discrimination against all Israeli Jewish-run companies.
- AzzieElbab 5y ago
  “ And BDS is modeled after the successful Apartheid boycotts” except that there is no Apartheid is the state of Israel. There is an ongoing conflict and occupation in the Palestinian territories but there is no Apartheid in Israel itself where about a quarter of population is Arab. BDS intentionally squashes two problems into one to draw analogies
  - ComputerGuru 5y ago
    Arab-Israelis are second class citizens of Israel. Israel, with or without the West Bank, is absolutely an apartheid state. https://www.waronwant.org/news-analysis/israeli-apartheid-factsheet https://www.waronwant.org/news-analysis/israeli-apartheid-fa...
    - AzzieElbab 5y ago
      Is this article supposed to prove my point or yours? I read it and saw no examples of supposed apartheid in the state of Israel. The article intentionally mashes Israel and occupied territories together.
  - sofixa 5y ago
    Does an Israeli Arab, or worse, a Palestinian Arab, have the same rights as an Israeli Jew? Does the Israeli constitution say it's a country for Jews? Are the people in Gaza living in what amounts to an open air prison? Are Palestinian getting expelled from their land for resettlement by Jews? No, yes, yes and yes. It's hard to argue that's seriously different than apartheid ( except that black South Africans weren't generally confined to an open air prison, and expelled from their land for resettlement by whites).
pydry 5y ago
>The Israeli boycott isn't simply saying you don't agree with their government, it's actively boycotting companies run by Israeli Jews Conflating the behavior of "Jews" with the behavior of the "State of Israel" is racist. You just did that. He didnt. Neither did BDS.
- Mikeb85 5y ago
  Yes it is. Read the BDS website. They advocate boycotting "nearly" every Israeli company. > Virtually all Israeli companies are complicit to some degree in Israel’s system of occupation and apartheid. From https://bdsmovement.net/get-involved/what-to-boycott https://bdsmovement.net/get-involved/what-to-boycott Last dropdown link at the bottom of the page.
  - malermeister 5y ago
    You just did it again. Israeli != Jew. There's plenty of Muslim, Christian and secular Israelis. Stop conflating religion and nationality.
  - pydry 5y ago
    You are still deliberately conflating race and state. We both know that calling a boycott of "nearly every American" company an "attack on the white race" would be a racist wolf whistle, and not a particularly subtle one. Yours is no different.
  - mattzito 5y ago
    So - let's say that a business owner in Texas thinks BDS is at best misguided, and at worst anti-semitic, and does not want to align themselves with them. However, they also believe that the Israeli government is creating a humanitarian crisis and wants to protest, however symbolically, so they decide they're not going to do business with any Israeli company who directly does business with the Israeli government. In this case, they're not part of BDS, they are boycotting based on their sincere beliefs, and this law constrains their speech regardless. It's clear that BDS is the precipitating cause of this law, and so it's reasonable to look at BDS as the way that this was put into place, but the law itself doesn't have anything to do with BDS, and so it's not relevant to talk about BDS in the context of its effects on people today.
mattzito 5y ago
Yes, you are allowed to protest the French government by boycotting French companies. The courts in this country have recognized boycotts as a protected form of political speech. You still aren’t allowed to discriminate against individuals, but the courts have recognized that collective action to encourage political change is a form of protest and free speech. I find BDS problematic, but saying you can’t boycott a group of businesses for political reasons is anathema to the spirit of free speech and protest. For the same reason,’it is perfectly fine to boycott Saudi Arabian businesses for their national political policies, even though in practice that means not doing business with Saudi Muslims.