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I know this is at least somewhat a software issue; as in on many monitors options for display scaling don't even appear. My Dell U3818DW does have retina scalin

by least 5y ago

I know this is at least somewhat a software issue; as in on many monitors options for display scaling don't even appear. My Dell U3818DW does have retina scaling options, thankfully, but my Asus PG278Q did not when I was using it. I ended up following along to this article [1] to get some retina display options for it. With that being said, I think the larger issue is that there simply aren't that many high dpi external monitors available, and the ones that do exist are expensive. There are a ton of options for 4k panels in PC laptops that are like 13-17 inch and Apple's retina displays on their iMacs and Macbooks are also high dpi but I can count on my fingers how many true high dpi screens there are for external display options. Gamers don't really want higher resolution since GPUs can't drive them well natively and games don't really need the sharpness and I imagine that corporations buying hundreds of monitors at a time don't really care about it, either, especially since Windows renders text on them quite adequately. Mac users are certainly longing for some decent monitor options that aren't 5000 dollars, though. [1] https://medium.com/comsystoreply/force-hidpi-resolutions-for-dell-u2515h-monitor-5304e5506214 https://medium.com/comsystoreply/force-hidpi-resolutions-for...

pedrocr 5y ago
Here are 118 different 4K monitors starting at 240€: https://www.worten.pt/informatica-e-acessorios/monitores/monitores-pc?resolucao-monitores=4K+Ultra+HD+%283840x2160%29 https://www.worten.pt/informatica-e-acessorios/monitores/mon... I've bought 3 LG ones during the pandemic and they're great. What other options do you need?
- aulin 5y ago
  can you confirm they work in retina mode with macs? e.g. anyone tried 27UL500 and can confirm text looks good?
  - 4ad 5y ago
    No, I tried these 4k@27 inch displays, and you can enable scaling, but it looks really really poor compared to my 5k iMac. 4k at 27 inch is not retina-quality, period. This is the only reason I use an iMac, I simply can't get an equally good display without paying €5k+. I understand that not everybody understands hiDPI displays, but it really grinds me gears to see low-resolution displays advertised as solutions to people who do understand hiDPI.
    - aulin 5y ago
      Ok, I understand it cannot be comparable with a 5k iMac. But is text good enough? with €5k+ I can build a pretty serious linux rig with a couple of 4k monitors and keep the macbook air m1 just for mobile use. It's a shame that my 10+ years old macbook pro with High Sierra can render text better on any external monitor than my brand new air m1.
      - 4ad 5y ago
        In my opinion, text rendering on 4k@27'' is nowhere near sharp enough. In my experience there isn't a continuum from low-dpi to high-dpi, but rather there's a sharp transition where text suddenly becomes sharp and 4k@27'' is below that line. In fact, once you see these new 280dpi displays, even 5k@27'' barely makes the cut. I wish it were sharper.
        pedrocr 5y ago
        Angular resolution is much more important than the actual surface DPI. Depending on you viewing distances and the quality of your vision 4K on a 14" laptop is needed or 1080p on a 27" screen is more than enough. Your requirements are extreme compared to most.
        4ad 5y ago
        Yes, angular resolution is all that matters, which is why books, which are supposed to be used closer than any screen have been at least 300dpi since we have invented phototypesetting.
        pedrocr 5y ago
        We can discuss how much angular resolution is enough but we clearly don't need 300dpi for a billboard. To get the same font quality when looking at a phone, laptop or external screen a different dpi will be needed. Here's Apple's range of Retina displays: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Retina_display#Models https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Retina_display#Models The DPI difference between highest (iPhone 12) and lowest (Pro Display XDR) is 2.2x. The angular resolution difference at typical viewing distance between those two screens is 1.1x. Clearly the angular resolution at typical viewing distance is a much better definition of what's good enough resolution than the DPI.
- 4ad 5y ago
  Sorry, but those are not hiDPI. For hiDPI, you need at least 5k at 27 inch. There was a single (!!) LG display (27MD5KL) that met that criteria, but it was discontinued. The only external hiDPI displays that exist are the Apple Pro XDR (only works on macOS), and the Dell UP3218K (doesn't work on macOS). Of course the iMac is hiDPI, but it's not an external display. It's bewildering how manufacturers keep pushing for this low resolution 4k crap 10 years (!!!!) after hiDPI displays first appeared in laptops. Reference: https://geizhals.eu/?cat=monlcd19wide&xf=12018_200 https://geizhals.eu/?cat=monlcd19wide&xf=12018_200
  - radley 5y ago
    > There was a single (!!) LG display (27MD5KL) that met that criteria, but it was discontinued. It was updated in 2019 as the 27MD5KL-B, specifically designed for Macs: https://www.lg.com/us/monitors/lg-27md5kl-b-5k-uhd-led-monitor https://www.lg.com/us/monitors/lg-27md5kl-b-5k-uhd-led-monit... I saw it listed on apple.com two months ago, but it was a month+ back-ordered. I ended up buying one via eBay (for my Mac Mini M1). EDIT: it's still available on apple.com: https://www.apple.com/shop/product/HMUB2LL/A/lg-ultrafine-5k-display https://www.apple.com/shop/product/HMUB2LL/A/lg-ultrafine-5k...
    - 4ad 5y ago
      Sadly it's out of production, everything you can find (if you can find it) is new-old stock. And also unfortunately, the build quality is very, very bad. But yes, better get that one while you still can! But be warned, my friend recently got one, and had to go through about 10 retailers until he found one that could actually sell him one. Many retailers put these on their websites in the hope that LG will be able to deliver stock, but LG can't deliver stock.
      - radley 5y ago
        Uhm well, I upgraded from a Cinema Display. Granted the LG has a plastic frame, but I've paid for 3 replacement glass screens for my Cinema Displays because they chip so easily. Color-wise, the LG is fantastic - and I was very skeptical about getting it. The old one wasn't very good when I compared it side by side with an iMac Pro (Apple Store, Union Street, SF). I'm not sure if they changed the screen quality, but it seems on par, if not better than my old Cinema Display. EDIT: yeah, my first purchase was via Amazon as "Used - Like New", which turned out to be a 2 year old model that couldn't talk to the Mac. I found a new one at a great price via eBay which works great, but the manual was in Cyrillic...
- sgjohnson 5y ago
  Make that an IPS panel and it's only 7 monitors under €300
  - skohan 5y ago
    So basically what you're complaining about is that high-end products are expensive? How many 4k IPS displays would you have found at the $500 price point even a few years ago?
    - selfhoster11 5y ago
      How is IPS high-end, exactly? It's table stakes for the modern-day. The technology is over a decade old, and TN is a strictly worse tech. If it isn't cheap, it should be cheap.
      - sgjohnson 5y ago
        And ultimately this, there’s no way 4K 60Hz IPS panel could be described as “high end”. High end for 60Hz these days is OLED, IPS is the de-facto standard, and TN or VA aren’t worth buying.
    - sgjohnson 5y ago
      Irrelevant, the point was that they are hardly “affordable”; if you’re going to get more than 1 external monitor, viewing angles are going to be a concern, and that leaves IPS as the only viable option. I’m personally running 3 24” external monitors, and I’m fairly sure that I’d have a viewing angle issue had my panels been TN.
      - lostmsu 5y ago
        Why are viewing angles concern with a multimonitor setup? Don't you turn every monitor to face you directly, so that the viewing angle is 0?
        rpdillon 5y ago
- noir_lord 5y ago
  Watch the corners. I bought 3 4K 27” LG ups ones, one the corners blew out (massive bleed til you can’t see the pixels for the white shining through), one is going thr same way and only the newest shows no sign of it (yet). Going Samsung next time since LG make panels for everyone and I simply don’t trust them now.
- least 5y ago
  Almost no 4k monitors would be considered high dpi. To achieve 220dpi you need a 4k monitor to be 20 inches. 27 inch 4k monitor 4:1 pixel mapping makes it appear to be 1080p, which many people would not consider to be appropriate for that size monitor. You can use fractional scaling but that comes with its own sets of issues because the pixels don't map correctly. 27 inch 1440p at 100% scaling in Windows or MacOS is what most would be consider appropriate sizing for UI elements and text by default, so in order to achieve high dpi you need a 5k monitor, like the LG UltraFine or the 27 inch iMac.

by least 5y ago

pedrocr 5y ago

Here are 118 different 4K monitors starting at 240€: https://www.worten.pt/informatica-e-acessorios/monitores/monitores-pc?resolucao-monitores=4K+Ultra+HD+%283840x2160%29 https://www.worten.pt/informatica-e-acessorios/monitores/mon... I've bought 3 LG ones during the pandemic and they're great. What other options do you need?

aulin 5y ago
can you confirm they work in retina mode with macs? e.g. anyone tried 27UL500 and can confirm text looks good?
- 4ad 5y ago
  No, I tried these 4k@27 inch displays, and you can enable scaling, but it looks really really poor compared to my 5k iMac. 4k at 27 inch is not retina-quality, period. This is the only reason I use an iMac, I simply can't get an equally good display without paying €5k+. I understand that not everybody understands hiDPI displays, but it really grinds me gears to see low-resolution displays advertised as solutions to people who do understand hiDPI.
  - aulin 5y ago
    Ok, I understand it cannot be comparable with a 5k iMac. But is text good enough? with €5k+ I can build a pretty serious linux rig with a couple of 4k monitors and keep the macbook air m1 just for mobile use. It's a shame that my 10+ years old macbook pro with High Sierra can render text better on any external monitor than my brand new air m1.
    - 4ad 5y ago
      In my opinion, text rendering on 4k@27'' is nowhere near sharp enough. In my experience there isn't a continuum from low-dpi to high-dpi, but rather there's a sharp transition where text suddenly becomes sharp and 4k@27'' is below that line. In fact, once you see these new 280dpi displays, even 5k@27'' barely makes the cut. I wish it were sharper.
      - pedrocr 5y ago
        Angular resolution is much more important than the actual surface DPI. Depending on you viewing distances and the quality of your vision 4K on a 14" laptop is needed or 1080p on a 27" screen is more than enough. Your requirements are extreme compared to most.
        4ad 5y ago
        Yes, angular resolution is all that matters, which is why books, which are supposed to be used closer than any screen have been at least 300dpi since we have invented phototypesetting.
        pedrocr 5y ago
        We can discuss how much angular resolution is enough but we clearly don't need 300dpi for a billboard. To get the same font quality when looking at a phone, laptop or external screen a different dpi will be needed. Here's Apple's range of Retina displays: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Retina_display#Models https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Retina_display#Models The DPI difference between highest (iPhone 12) and lowest (Pro Display XDR) is 2.2x. The angular resolution difference at typical viewing distance between those two screens is 1.1x. Clearly the angular resolution at typical viewing distance is a much better definition of what's good enough resolution than the DPI.
4ad 5y ago
Sorry, but those are not hiDPI. For hiDPI, you need at least 5k at 27 inch. There was a single (!!) LG display (27MD5KL) that met that criteria, but it was discontinued. The only external hiDPI displays that exist are the Apple Pro XDR (only works on macOS), and the Dell UP3218K (doesn't work on macOS). Of course the iMac is hiDPI, but it's not an external display. It's bewildering how manufacturers keep pushing for this low resolution 4k crap 10 years (!!!!) after hiDPI displays first appeared in laptops. Reference: https://geizhals.eu/?cat=monlcd19wide&xf=12018_200 https://geizhals.eu/?cat=monlcd19wide&xf=12018_200
- radley 5y ago
  > There was a single (!!) LG display (27MD5KL) that met that criteria, but it was discontinued. It was updated in 2019 as the 27MD5KL-B, specifically designed for Macs: https://www.lg.com/us/monitors/lg-27md5kl-b-5k-uhd-led-monitor https://www.lg.com/us/monitors/lg-27md5kl-b-5k-uhd-led-monit... I saw it listed on apple.com two months ago, but it was a month+ back-ordered. I ended up buying one via eBay (for my Mac Mini M1). EDIT: it's still available on apple.com: https://www.apple.com/shop/product/HMUB2LL/A/lg-ultrafine-5k-display https://www.apple.com/shop/product/HMUB2LL/A/lg-ultrafine-5k...
  - 4ad 5y ago
    Sadly it's out of production, everything you can find (if you can find it) is new-old stock. And also unfortunately, the build quality is very, very bad. But yes, better get that one while you still can! But be warned, my friend recently got one, and had to go through about 10 retailers until he found one that could actually sell him one. Many retailers put these on their websites in the hope that LG will be able to deliver stock, but LG can't deliver stock.
    - radley 5y ago
      Uhm well, I upgraded from a Cinema Display. Granted the LG has a plastic frame, but I've paid for 3 replacement glass screens for my Cinema Displays because they chip so easily. Color-wise, the LG is fantastic - and I was very skeptical about getting it. The old one wasn't very good when I compared it side by side with an iMac Pro (Apple Store, Union Street, SF). I'm not sure if they changed the screen quality, but it seems on par, if not better than my old Cinema Display. EDIT: yeah, my first purchase was via Amazon as "Used - Like New", which turned out to be a 2 year old model that couldn't talk to the Mac. I found a new one at a great price via eBay which works great, but the manual was in Cyrillic...
sgjohnson 5y ago
Make that an IPS panel and it's only 7 monitors under €300
- skohan 5y ago
  So basically what you're complaining about is that high-end products are expensive? How many 4k IPS displays would you have found at the $500 price point even a few years ago?
  - selfhoster11 5y ago
    How is IPS high-end, exactly? It's table stakes for the modern-day. The technology is over a decade old, and TN is a strictly worse tech. If it isn't cheap, it should be cheap.
    - sgjohnson 5y ago
      And ultimately this, there’s no way 4K 60Hz IPS panel could be described as “high end”. High end for 60Hz these days is OLED, IPS is the de-facto standard, and TN or VA aren’t worth buying.
  - sgjohnson 5y ago
    Irrelevant, the point was that they are hardly “affordable”; if you’re going to get more than 1 external monitor, viewing angles are going to be a concern, and that leaves IPS as the only viable option. I’m personally running 3 24” external monitors, and I’m fairly sure that I’d have a viewing angle issue had my panels been TN.
    - lostmsu 5y ago
      Why are viewing angles concern with a multimonitor setup? Don't you turn every monitor to face you directly, so that the viewing angle is 0?
      - rpdillon 5y ago
noir_lord 5y ago
Watch the corners. I bought 3 4K 27” LG ups ones, one the corners blew out (massive bleed til you can’t see the pixels for the white shining through), one is going thr same way and only the newest shows no sign of it (yet). Going Samsung next time since LG make panels for everyone and I simply don’t trust them now.
least 5y ago
Almost no 4k monitors would be considered high dpi. To achieve 220dpi you need a 4k monitor to be 20 inches. 27 inch 4k monitor 4:1 pixel mapping makes it appear to be 1080p, which many people would not consider to be appropriate for that size monitor. You can use fractional scaling but that comes with its own sets of issues because the pixels don't map correctly. 27 inch 1440p at 100% scaling in Windows or MacOS is what most would be consider appropriate sizing for UI elements and text by default, so in order to achieve high dpi you need a 5k monitor, like the LG UltraFine or the 27 inch iMac.