5 ms·

Why is ‘wiring’ so bad from your point of view?

by zepto 5y ago

kwertyoowiyop 5y ago
Indeed. I’ll gladly pay $20 to have a professional human in the loop when I transfer the down payment on a house.
- arcticbull 5y ago
  Wires are often free. My bank (HSBC) charges me nothing for domestic wires, my brokerage (IBKR) charges me nothing for domestic wires, Schwab charges nothing for domestic wires, neither does Fidelity, USAA or Ally - even FTX charges nothing for domestic wires - even though moving USDC-ETH out of FTX and into your wallet costs $25.
  - bryik 5y ago
    > Wires are often free. Do you have a citation for this? The articles I found online suggest fees are almost universal, with only a single bank (Fidelity) offering true $0 wire transfer fees to all customers [0]. 0 - https://www.nerdwallet.com/article/banking/wire-transfers-what-banks-charge https://www.nerdwallet.com/article/banking/wire-transfers-wh...
    - arcticbull 5y ago
      Here's references, although it looks like Ally and USAA have started charging fees since I looked. HSBC offer free wires for Premier customers. [1] IBKR offers the first domestic wire per month free, subsequent $10. [2] Schwab also offers 1 free per month for qualified customers. [3] Fidelity offers free wires. [4] FTX offers free wires ("We are not currently charging for wire deposits or withdrawals.") [5] Chase Premier Plus and Sapphire checking do not charge wire fees. [6] TD Bank offers 1 free wire transfer per statement cycle. [7] Citigold accounts offer free wires. [8] CIT Bank depending on balance. [9] They're not always free, to be sure - most of the low-end accounts charge for them, but then, those low-end accounts charge for practically everything. That said, TD Bank, Fidelity, Schwab, IBKR all offer at least 1 free wire per month for all customers. If you have any meaningful balances or monthly income, you shouldn't ever pay for wires. Every retail bank offers free wires for qualifying customers to the best of my knowledge. [1] https://www.us.hsbc.com/content/dam/hsbc/us/docs/pdf/deposit-terms-and-charges/hsbc_premier_tcs.pdf https://www.us.hsbc.com/content/dam/hsbc/us/docs/pdf/deposit... p.3 [2] https://www.interactivebrokers.com/en/index.php?f=14718 https://www.interactivebrokers.com/en/index.php?f=14718 [3] https://www.schwab.com/legal/schwab-pricing-guide-for-individual-investors https://www.schwab.com/legal/schwab-pricing-guide-for-indivi... [4] https://www.fidelity.com/customer-service/choose-eft-or-bank-wire https://www.fidelity.com/customer-service/choose-eft-or-bank... [5] https://help.ftx.us/hc/en-us/articles/360043579273-Fees https://help.ftx.us/hc/en-us/articles/360043579273-Fees [6] https://www.chase.com/content/dam/chase-ux/documents/personal/checking/ABSF-en.pdf https://www.chase.com/content/dam/chase-ux/documents/persona... [7] https://www.feeds.td.com/en/document/oao/pdf/1_fees.pdf https://www.feeds.td.com/en/document/oao/pdf/1_fees.pdf [8] https://online.citi.com/US/JRS/pands/detail.do?ID=WireTransfers https://online.citi.com/US/JRS/pands/detail.do?ID=WireTransf... [9] https://www.cit.com/cit-bank/resources/schedule-of-fees https://www.cit.com/cit-bank/resources/schedule-of-fees
almostkorean 5y ago
I'm not OP but I had to wire money earlier this year when I bought a house. To accomplish this, I had to drive to my nearest bank branch (1 hour drive), talk to a bank teller for 15 minutes while she filled out forms and printed out papers I had to sign, and then they told me the wire would probably arrive in time for the house signing (3 hours later). This was to send ~$15k. Compare this to sending USDC on [smart contract enabled blockchain] which takes a few clicks and minutes at most. For arguments sake I will point out the downsides to using crypto in this case: 1. Most people don't want to manage their own wallet 2. USDC is centralized so there is some amount of risk 3. If you send it to the wrong wallet, RIP to your money FWIW, I was just as scared of sending the wire transfer to the wrong place as I was when I send crypto. And with crypto you can quickly send a small test amount first. You can use something like DAI which is less centralized than USDC if that risk is a concern. Wallet UX will improve over time
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- ericd 5y ago
  You might want to switch banks, I wire money a couple times a month, it takes about 5 minutes via their website, it goes out very soon after initiation (if it’s within business hours).
- aardvark179 5y ago
  That’s a failing of the US banking system, but not of banking systems everywhere. In the UK you can send up to £250,000 within 15 minutes, and you can generally do this online.
  - arcticbull 5y ago
    And one that's actively being remedied by both RTP (already rolled out to many customers) and FedNow in 2023.
- twic 5y ago
  People are probably tired of hearing this, but this is not a problem with wiring, it's a problem with US banks. When i bought my home in the UK six years ago, i phoned my bank, told them how much i wanted to send and to who, and they did it, with the money arriving straight away. If the amount had been less than 20k, i could have done it online rather than over the phone; the back-end payment machinery is the same, but i suppose the bank think there's less chance of a normal customer making a mistake with a large transfer if someone walks them through it. My bank is rather old-fashioned; more modern banks let you make large transfers online or through their app: https://www.starlingbank.com/blog/high-value-payments/ https://www.starlingbank.com/blog/high-value-payments/ That page mentions that "one of our team members may need to double check a few details before the payment can be made" - again, that's nothing to do with the machinery, that's in case you match some pattern looking for fraud or money laundering etc.
iskander 5y ago
I'm in the US and it's a very messy and archaic system that involves paperwork, multiple human intermediaries and days to clear.

Why is ‘wiring’ so bad from your point of view?

by zepto 5y ago

Why is ‘wiring’ so bad from your point of view?

kwertyoowiyop 5y ago

Indeed. I’ll gladly pay $20 to have a professional human in the loop when I transfer the down payment on a house.

arcticbull 5y ago
Wires are often free. My bank (HSBC) charges me nothing for domestic wires, my brokerage (IBKR) charges me nothing for domestic wires, Schwab charges nothing for domestic wires, neither does Fidelity, USAA or Ally - even FTX charges nothing for domestic wires - even though moving USDC-ETH out of FTX and into your wallet costs $25.
- bryik 5y ago
  > Wires are often free. Do you have a citation for this? The articles I found online suggest fees are almost universal, with only a single bank (Fidelity) offering true $0 wire transfer fees to all customers [0]. 0 - https://www.nerdwallet.com/article/banking/wire-transfers-what-banks-charge https://www.nerdwallet.com/article/banking/wire-transfers-wh...
  - arcticbull 5y ago
    Here's references, although it looks like Ally and USAA have started charging fees since I looked. HSBC offer free wires for Premier customers. [1] IBKR offers the first domestic wire per month free, subsequent $10. [2] Schwab also offers 1 free per month for qualified customers. [3] Fidelity offers free wires. [4] FTX offers free wires ("We are not currently charging for wire deposits or withdrawals.") [5] Chase Premier Plus and Sapphire checking do not charge wire fees. [6] TD Bank offers 1 free wire transfer per statement cycle. [7] Citigold accounts offer free wires. [8] CIT Bank depending on balance. [9] They're not always free, to be sure - most of the low-end accounts charge for them, but then, those low-end accounts charge for practically everything. That said, TD Bank, Fidelity, Schwab, IBKR all offer at least 1 free wire per month for all customers. If you have any meaningful balances or monthly income, you shouldn't ever pay for wires. Every retail bank offers free wires for qualifying customers to the best of my knowledge. [1] https://www.us.hsbc.com/content/dam/hsbc/us/docs/pdf/deposit-terms-and-charges/hsbc_premier_tcs.pdf https://www.us.hsbc.com/content/dam/hsbc/us/docs/pdf/deposit... p.3 [2] https://www.interactivebrokers.com/en/index.php?f=14718 https://www.interactivebrokers.com/en/index.php?f=14718 [3] https://www.schwab.com/legal/schwab-pricing-guide-for-individual-investors https://www.schwab.com/legal/schwab-pricing-guide-for-indivi... [4] https://www.fidelity.com/customer-service/choose-eft-or-bank-wire https://www.fidelity.com/customer-service/choose-eft-or-bank... [5] https://help.ftx.us/hc/en-us/articles/360043579273-Fees https://help.ftx.us/hc/en-us/articles/360043579273-Fees [6] https://www.chase.com/content/dam/chase-ux/documents/personal/checking/ABSF-en.pdf https://www.chase.com/content/dam/chase-ux/documents/persona... [7] https://www.feeds.td.com/en/document/oao/pdf/1_fees.pdf https://www.feeds.td.com/en/document/oao/pdf/1_fees.pdf [8] https://online.citi.com/US/JRS/pands/detail.do?ID=WireTransfers https://online.citi.com/US/JRS/pands/detail.do?ID=WireTransf... [9] https://www.cit.com/cit-bank/resources/schedule-of-fees https://www.cit.com/cit-bank/resources/schedule-of-fees

almostkorean 5y ago

I'm not OP but I had to wire money earlier this year when I bought a house. To accomplish this, I had to drive to my nearest bank branch (1 hour drive), talk to a bank teller for 15 minutes while she filled out forms and printed out papers I had to sign, and then they told me the wire would probably arrive in time for the house signing (3 hours later). This was to send ~$15k. Compare this to sending USDC on [smart contract enabled blockchain] which takes a few clicks and minutes at most. For arguments sake I will point out the downsides to using crypto in this case: 1. Most people don't want to manage their own wallet 2. USDC is centralized so there is some amount of risk 3. If you send it to the wrong wallet, RIP to your money FWIW, I was just as scared of sending the wire transfer to the wrong place as I was when I send crypto. And with crypto you can quickly send a small test amount first. You can use something like DAI which is less centralized than USDC if that risk is a concern. Wallet UX will improve over time

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
ericd 5y ago
You might want to switch banks, I wire money a couple times a month, it takes about 5 minutes via their website, it goes out very soon after initiation (if it’s within business hours).
aardvark179 5y ago
That’s a failing of the US banking system, but not of banking systems everywhere. In the UK you can send up to £250,000 within 15 minutes, and you can generally do this online.
- arcticbull 5y ago
  And one that's actively being remedied by both RTP (already rolled out to many customers) and FedNow in 2023.
twic 5y ago
People are probably tired of hearing this, but this is not a problem with wiring, it's a problem with US banks. When i bought my home in the UK six years ago, i phoned my bank, told them how much i wanted to send and to who, and they did it, with the money arriving straight away. If the amount had been less than 20k, i could have done it online rather than over the phone; the back-end payment machinery is the same, but i suppose the bank think there's less chance of a normal customer making a mistake with a large transfer if someone walks them through it. My bank is rather old-fashioned; more modern banks let you make large transfers online or through their app: https://www.starlingbank.com/blog/high-value-payments/ https://www.starlingbank.com/blog/high-value-payments/ That page mentions that "one of our team members may need to double check a few details before the payment can be made" - again, that's nothing to do with the machinery, that's in case you match some pattern looking for fraud or money laundering etc.

iskander 5y ago

I'm in the US and it's a very messy and archaic system that involves paperwork, multiple human intermediaries and days to clear.