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Anecdotally, I've seen several bent "walk button" poles located right in the middle of refuge islands. When you live in a place that gets snow and ice in the wi

Anecdotally, I've seen several bent "walk button" poles located right in the middle of refuge islands. When you live in a place that gets snow and ice in the winter, cars slide out of control frequently.

Gwypaas 5y ago
I think that comes down to mandating winter tires, effective snowplowing and drivers education including driving in slippery conditions, if such conditions are regularly encountered and expected. Important is enforcing it also, let people slide out of control in a controlled fashion so they know to be scared of it. I literally drove all around town yesterday, a nice cool -5C (23F) with about 30-40 cm of snow which came in the last week, no problem at all. No bent poles anywhere (anecdotally). Always fun feeling the ABS kick in at the slightest too hard touch of the brake pedal, even with studded tires.
- ARandumGuy 5y ago
  I think there may be some miscommunication on what I meant by "poorly designed refuge islands." This is the sort of refuge island I was thinking about (apologies for the long link): https://www.google.com/maps/@46.7950288,-100.7944774,3a,61.2y,348.42h,84.04t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sD_L0NlN7HZ5LCsh0Pvj7zQ!2e0!6shttps:%2F%2Fstreetviewpixels-pa.googleapis.com%2Fv1%2Fthumbnail%3Fpanoid%3DD_L0NlN7HZ5LCsh0Pvj7zQ%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26w%3D203%26h%3D100%26yaw%3D176.50128%26pitch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D100!7i13312!8i6656 https://www.google.com/maps/@46.7950288,-100.7944774,3a,61.2... Refuge islands can be fairly safe, but not in this situation, where the pedestrian is standing a few feet away from fast moving traffic, with no curb and only a flimsy plastic pole for protection.
  - Gwypaas 5y ago
    Ah right, that's an awful one. This is one of the worst examples I find in my vicinity, no new road would ever get designed like this. To thin. https://goo.gl/maps/8wP7UUb5ZtFm7uu87 https://goo.gl/maps/8wP7UUb5ZtFm7uu87 Here's a more newly designed one, it should be possible to wait with a bike or a stroller there and still feel safe. See this high traffic and speed intersection without any lights. Would still want completely separated lanes though. https://goo.gl/maps/uxR3zdMw2w2p6zcE6 https://goo.gl/maps/uxR3zdMw2w2p6zcE6
- vineyardmike 5y ago
  As someone who grew up with snow, this is wishful thinking. > yesterday, a nice cool -5C (23F) with about 30-40 cm of snow Not sure if you're in US but if you are, and clearly live somewhere with snow, you must know that the snow-treatment budget is always an easy target for cuts.

Gwypaas 5y ago

I think that comes down to mandating winter tires, effective snowplowing and drivers education including driving in slippery conditions, if such conditions are regularly encountered and expected. Important is enforcing it also, let people slide out of control in a controlled fashion so they know to be scared of it. I literally drove all around town yesterday, a nice cool -5C (23F) with about 30-40 cm of snow which came in the last week, no problem at all. No bent poles anywhere (anecdotally). Always fun feeling the ABS kick in at the slightest too hard touch of the brake pedal, even with studded tires.

ARandumGuy 5y ago
I think there may be some miscommunication on what I meant by "poorly designed refuge islands." This is the sort of refuge island I was thinking about (apologies for the long link): https://www.google.com/maps/@46.7950288,-100.7944774,3a,61.2y,348.42h,84.04t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sD_L0NlN7HZ5LCsh0Pvj7zQ!2e0!6shttps:%2F%2Fstreetviewpixels-pa.googleapis.com%2Fv1%2Fthumbnail%3Fpanoid%3DD_L0NlN7HZ5LCsh0Pvj7zQ%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26w%3D203%26h%3D100%26yaw%3D176.50128%26pitch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D100!7i13312!8i6656 https://www.google.com/maps/@46.7950288,-100.7944774,3a,61.2... Refuge islands can be fairly safe, but not in this situation, where the pedestrian is standing a few feet away from fast moving traffic, with no curb and only a flimsy plastic pole for protection.
- Gwypaas 5y ago
  Ah right, that's an awful one. This is one of the worst examples I find in my vicinity, no new road would ever get designed like this. To thin. https://goo.gl/maps/8wP7UUb5ZtFm7uu87 https://goo.gl/maps/8wP7UUb5ZtFm7uu87 Here's a more newly designed one, it should be possible to wait with a bike or a stroller there and still feel safe. See this high traffic and speed intersection without any lights. Would still want completely separated lanes though. https://goo.gl/maps/uxR3zdMw2w2p6zcE6 https://goo.gl/maps/uxR3zdMw2w2p6zcE6
vineyardmike 5y ago
As someone who grew up with snow, this is wishful thinking. > yesterday, a nice cool -5C (23F) with about 30-40 cm of snow Not sure if you're in US but if you are, and clearly live somewhere with snow, you must know that the snow-treatment budget is always an easy target for cuts.