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We have roundabouts everywhere in France, but in the US, they seem not very popular. They do removes the need for traffic lights, make priority checking a non

We have roundabouts everywhere in France, but in the US, they seem not very popular. They do removes the need for traffic lights, make priority checking a non issue and avoid left turns among other benefits. Although they prevent you from going to fast locally, they tend to make traffic more fluid on average. Why are they not used that much in the US ?

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
renewiltord 5y ago
Unpopular locally. The Seattle area has quite a few and people adapted pretty well to it, but the few in SF are stop-sign controlled as well, which makes them prettification projects.
AnotherGoodName 5y ago
There's roundabouts where I live in the USA with stop signs. People didn't know who has right of way and it led to road rage confrontations so the government had to add stop signs to them. People in the area now complain that roundabouts suck. Which they do when you have to stop before entering. So now we get more four way stop signs and traffic lights instead which cause traffic to stop and start, wasting fuel and increasing congestion. Sigh. On the other hand at least you can turn right on red which is something my home country needs to allow by default since I haven't once seen an issue with it in my years in the USA.
- estebank 5y ago
  > On the other hand at least you can turn right on red which is something my home country needs to allow by default since I haven't once seen an issue with it in my years in the USA. > Right-Turn-on-Red (RTOR), in its “Western” version allows motorists to turn right on a red signal after stopping and yielding, unless specifically prohibited by a sign. The objective of this study was to determine the effect of Western RTOR on pedestrian and bicycle accidents in selected jurisdictions adopting the rule in the mid-1970s. The results showed significant increases in pedestrian and bicyclist accidents involving right-turning vehicles at signalized locations following the introduction of Western RTOR. These increases were: 40 % for pedestrians and 82 % for bicycles in New York State; 107 % for pedestrians and 72 % for bicycles in Wisconsin; 57 % for pedestrians and 80 % for bicycles in Ohio; and 82 % for pedestrians in New Orleans. Analysis of police accident reports suggested that drivers stopped for a red light are looking left for a gap in traffic and do not see pedestrians and bicyclists coming from their right. Countermeasure research and development was recommended to deal with this well defined problem which involves between 1 % and 3 % of all pedestrian and bicycle accidents. https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/0022437582900019 https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/002243...
- dragonwriter 5y ago
  > People didn't know who has right of way and it led to road rage confrontations so the government had to add stop signs to them. “Yield to traffic in circle" clarifies things just as well, is commonly used, and restates the actual right-of-way rule applicable to an otherwise-uncontrolled roundabout. An amateur generalist politician like most city councilors and mayors I can see thinking stop signs are the answers, but presumably they had a roads department with at least one professional to consult, so one hopes that there was more at issue than people not knowing the rules if they chose stop signs.
rossdavidh 5y ago
They have started to appear in Austin, Texas, where I live, but only in the last 10 years. There are many more places they could be added, but I think when two country roads meet you just make a plain "+" intersection, and as it gets gradually more urban it just never gets rethought as to whether it should be turned into a roundabout. But it is (where I live at least) slowly starting to get adopted.
mazugrin2 5y ago
You have roundabouts in the middle of Paris in areas with lots of pedestrians? Please show me. Certainly not any parts where anybody would think, hey, this is a great bit of infrastructure for people traveling on foot.... Roundabouts may be great for vehicular traffic, and yes, I believe they should be far more widely used in the US, but not in dense urban areas where pedestrian safety is meant to be a priority.
- BiteCode_dev 5y ago
  Yes, we do. Even if paris is probably the city with the least roundabout because it's the oldest, you can use google map and zoom to see the little circles: https://0bin.net/paste/xL8ni-vJ#Sv-WUYiKnM2WuRDTCBX0iHfLCWDmyloQqV/FMyUzTxp https://0bin.net/paste/xL8ni-vJ#Sv-WUYiKnM2WuRDTCBX0iHfLCWDm... We even have to giants ones on Nation, Arc de Triomphe, etc. The later is actually dangerous, since priority is reversed, and the cars entering the roundabout should be given way.
wolverine876 5y ago
I've driven in places that use them regularly; I've never felt comfortable: Trying to change lanes and turn, while going around a curve, with traffic behind and in front of me going around curves (reducing visibility and judgment about position and speed), and also reguarly changing lanes and entering/exiting. Are you comfortable with it? How do you do it? (Empty roundabouts are fine, of course.)
- BiteCode_dev 5y ago
  We are train to do it when passing the driving licence, so it's second nature. In fact, I can do it without thinking, which I can't do with a crossing: too many variables. The hard part is the signaling (it has very specific rules), and you can see that the older drivers don't use their blinkers properly because they have never been taught to do so. However, it can becomes dangerous if it's overused. E.G: Nantes is a city famous for chaining roundabouts, to the point they sometimes have double-roundabouts, which are awkward even after years driving around them. I hate those with a passion.
  - wolverine876 5y ago
    > We are train to do it when passing the driving licence, so it's second nature. > The hard part is the signaling (it has very specific rules) That is a revelation! I never had that training or even knew it existed, and roundabouts are occasionally deployed where I live without implementing any training. The training seems an essential component? Any suggestions on where this training might be found (in English)?
    - BiteCode_dev 5y ago
      > That is a revelation! I never had that training or even knew it existed, and roundabouts are occasionally deployed where I live without implementing any training. The training seems an essential component? Like for any part of driving a car, training is important for 2 reasons: - you don't have to think when you are approaching a roundabount. You know where to look, you know what speed (and gear if applicable) you need, you know where lane to go and what signal to use. Since it's a situation with a lot of information, it makes your decision process relaxed and accurate. - socially, if most drivers are trained, they will behaved consistently, and hence, produce a stress and surprise free experience, but also letting you identify easy the drivers you need to watch out for. > Any suggestions on where this training might be found (in English)? I have no idea, it's part of all french drivers training automatically, anywhere you go.

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

renewiltord 5y ago

Unpopular locally. The Seattle area has quite a few and people adapted pretty well to it, but the few in SF are stop-sign controlled as well, which makes them prettification projects.

AnotherGoodName 5y ago

There's roundabouts where I live in the USA with stop signs. People didn't know who has right of way and it led to road rage confrontations so the government had to add stop signs to them. People in the area now complain that roundabouts suck. Which they do when you have to stop before entering. So now we get more four way stop signs and traffic lights instead which cause traffic to stop and start, wasting fuel and increasing congestion. Sigh. On the other hand at least you can turn right on red which is something my home country needs to allow by default since I haven't once seen an issue with it in my years in the USA.

estebank 5y ago
> On the other hand at least you can turn right on red which is something my home country needs to allow by default since I haven't once seen an issue with it in my years in the USA. > Right-Turn-on-Red (RTOR), in its “Western” version allows motorists to turn right on a red signal after stopping and yielding, unless specifically prohibited by a sign. The objective of this study was to determine the effect of Western RTOR on pedestrian and bicycle accidents in selected jurisdictions adopting the rule in the mid-1970s. The results showed significant increases in pedestrian and bicyclist accidents involving right-turning vehicles at signalized locations following the introduction of Western RTOR. These increases were: 40 % for pedestrians and 82 % for bicycles in New York State; 107 % for pedestrians and 72 % for bicycles in Wisconsin; 57 % for pedestrians and 80 % for bicycles in Ohio; and 82 % for pedestrians in New Orleans. Analysis of police accident reports suggested that drivers stopped for a red light are looking left for a gap in traffic and do not see pedestrians and bicyclists coming from their right. Countermeasure research and development was recommended to deal with this well defined problem which involves between 1 % and 3 % of all pedestrian and bicycle accidents. https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/0022437582900019 https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/002243...
dragonwriter 5y ago
> People didn't know who has right of way and it led to road rage confrontations so the government had to add stop signs to them. “Yield to traffic in circle" clarifies things just as well, is commonly used, and restates the actual right-of-way rule applicable to an otherwise-uncontrolled roundabout. An amateur generalist politician like most city councilors and mayors I can see thinking stop signs are the answers, but presumably they had a roads department with at least one professional to consult, so one hopes that there was more at issue than people not knowing the rules if they chose stop signs.

rossdavidh 5y ago

They have started to appear in Austin, Texas, where I live, but only in the last 10 years. There are many more places they could be added, but I think when two country roads meet you just make a plain "+" intersection, and as it gets gradually more urban it just never gets rethought as to whether it should be turned into a roundabout. But it is (where I live at least) slowly starting to get adopted.

mazugrin2 5y ago

You have roundabouts in the middle of Paris in areas with lots of pedestrians? Please show me. Certainly not any parts where anybody would think, hey, this is a great bit of infrastructure for people traveling on foot.... Roundabouts may be great for vehicular traffic, and yes, I believe they should be far more widely used in the US, but not in dense urban areas where pedestrian safety is meant to be a priority.

BiteCode_dev 5y ago
Yes, we do. Even if paris is probably the city with the least roundabout because it's the oldest, you can use google map and zoom to see the little circles: https://0bin.net/paste/xL8ni-vJ#Sv-WUYiKnM2WuRDTCBX0iHfLCWDmyloQqV/FMyUzTxp https://0bin.net/paste/xL8ni-vJ#Sv-WUYiKnM2WuRDTCBX0iHfLCWDm... We even have to giants ones on Nation, Arc de Triomphe, etc. The later is actually dangerous, since priority is reversed, and the cars entering the roundabout should be given way.

wolverine876 5y ago

I've driven in places that use them regularly; I've never felt comfortable: Trying to change lanes and turn, while going around a curve, with traffic behind and in front of me going around curves (reducing visibility and judgment about position and speed), and also reguarly changing lanes and entering/exiting. Are you comfortable with it? How do you do it? (Empty roundabouts are fine, of course.)

BiteCode_dev 5y ago
We are train to do it when passing the driving licence, so it's second nature. In fact, I can do it without thinking, which I can't do with a crossing: too many variables. The hard part is the signaling (it has very specific rules), and you can see that the older drivers don't use their blinkers properly because they have never been taught to do so. However, it can becomes dangerous if it's overused. E.G: Nantes is a city famous for chaining roundabouts, to the point they sometimes have double-roundabouts, which are awkward even after years driving around them. I hate those with a passion.
- wolverine876 5y ago
  > We are train to do it when passing the driving licence, so it's second nature. > The hard part is the signaling (it has very specific rules) That is a revelation! I never had that training or even knew it existed, and roundabouts are occasionally deployed where I live without implementing any training. The training seems an essential component? Any suggestions on where this training might be found (in English)?
  - BiteCode_dev 5y ago
    > That is a revelation! I never had that training or even knew it existed, and roundabouts are occasionally deployed where I live without implementing any training. The training seems an essential component? Like for any part of driving a car, training is important for 2 reasons: - you don't have to think when you are approaching a roundabount. You know where to look, you know what speed (and gear if applicable) you need, you know where lane to go and what signal to use. Since it's a situation with a lot of information, it makes your decision process relaxed and accurate. - socially, if most drivers are trained, they will behaved consistently, and hence, produce a stress and surprise free experience, but also letting you identify easy the drivers you need to watch out for. > Any suggestions on where this training might be found (in English)? I have no idea, it's part of all french drivers training automatically, anywhere you go.