4 ms·

It's shocking how little we pay the people that spend so much time with our kids.

bsagdiyev 5y ago
It’s a big problem. When we moved to NC my girlfriend started working at my son’s school (preschool). The $17/hr she gets is considered the top end of the pay range for her job… $17/hr! She’s got a college degree!
- randomdata 5y ago
  > She’s got a college degree! Is that significant? The preschool I send my child to's child care provider has a boat. Neither factor into my purchasing decision. Everyone is going to have hobbies of some sort outside of work. How much I will pay isn't going to change depending on what hobbies they have chosen.
  - bsagdiyev 5y ago
    Yeah that makes no sense. I would prefer my child is taught by someone who is at least accredited by the state. Of which a college degree is typically required. My point though was that she attended college and earns a shit wage, whereas I didn’t graduate high school but fell in to tech. Most tech jobs provide absolutely no value to the planet, mine included, compared to the value a teacher provides children.
    - randomdata 5y ago
      > My point though was that she attended college Your point is unclear. What difference does this make? She could have once travelled to the moon, but that wouldn't make her participation in the same job worth more. The buyers of services pay for the work being done, not for what you may have done in the past. They do not care about your hobbies. Do you think people are paying less for the software you help create because you didn't graduate from high school? Of course not. They couldn't care less. They are only concerned about what the software can do for them. > Most tech jobs provide absolutely no value to the planet, mine included, compared to the value a teacher provides children. Problem is that childcare doesn't scale very well. A single person can only care for so many children, especially when they are young. This means that the cost can only be distributed across so many parents. If the cost to the parents is too high, the parents will stay home and provide that care themselves. In contrast, a 99¢ app across many millions of customers provides very nice scalability and a fortune for those involved in it. Per customer, the childcare provider is paid substantially more, but is limited to how many customers they can have. Perhaps someone with a college degree should be using their experience to solve for the scalability issues, but a hobby one had in the past is no indication that they have interest in continuing with that hobby, so it is unrealistic to place that expectation on anyone.
- notyourday 5y ago
  There's no free lunch. Most of school budget comes from the property taxes inside school districts. To pay teachers more money, the voters simply need to go through whatever are the steps to increase the property taxes to accommodate the budget increase. Until that is done, all of this is just talk.
- gruez 5y ago
  >The $17/hr she gets is considered the top end of the pay range for her job… $17/hr! She’s got a college degree! is $17/hr supposed to be outrageously low? According to[1], the median wage in NC is $35,750/year, or $17.19/hr. Someone with a college degree making median wage, in a job that pays below median wage[2] doesn't seem too outrageous. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._states_and_territories_by_median_wage_and_mean_wage https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._states_and_territ... [2] https://www.bls.gov/oes/2020/may/oes_nat.htm https://www.bls.gov/oes/2020/may/oes_nat.htm, comparing "Preschool Teachers, Except Special Education" $15.35 median hourly wage, against "all occupations" with $20.17 median hourly wage.
folkrav 5y ago
This is one of the main reasons why I left the field before even graduating (elementary education, left halfway through the degree). The amount of bullshit you have to deal with on top of the terrible compensation and how little people seem to value the profession despite its importance played a big part. I'm not even 5 years out of school as a dev (and not even as a college level graduate), I already make way more than I would have been 15 years into my teaching career (max salary!), my schedule and quality of life are orders of magnitude better. I don't regret my decision other than the impact having a man teacher can have on some of those kids.
- mensetmanusman 5y ago
  You can still volunteer with the kiddos, maker spaces!
  - folkrav 5y ago
    Yeah, I did scouts for a couple of years. I'd like to do some dev coaching at some point, maybe. COVID put a brake to some of my plans, but I'm having a lot of fun teaching my 4yo son in the meantime haha.
- giantg2 5y ago
  "The amount of bullshit you have to deal with" This. My state pays well. I have friend who earned his teaching cert but never used it because of how terrible student teaching was, including child behavior and school policies.
- nemo44x 5y ago
  You should consider you've only been a dev in a massive bull market for software engineers. Teachers don't get laid off or face the types of uncertainty other types of careers do. You'll always make more money in private industry but you will probably work more and have less time off. Teachers get a lot of time off and work about 35 hours per week during the school year. And then of course the summers. It's an especially good career if you have kids yourself as you are home when they are.
criddell 5y ago
I think it might be out of date. I just looked up the salary scale for the Texas school district my kids went to and a new teacher starts at $50,900 for ten months of work. That doesn't seem too bad to me. https://drive.google.com/file/d/1RrA-OUnfVui8ACFEusfDSzRzL4w2SUuW/view https://drive.google.com/file/d/1RrA-OUnfVui8ACFEusfDSzRzL4w...
mmcgaha 5y ago
So we all have choices to make, and some people choose to become teachers. Now there are a lot of reasons that people make that choice, but I am sure that money is not one of them. So what happens once they get there that makes them decide they are underpaid? Maybe the problem isn't the money but how they are treated by parents and administration.
- teekert 5y ago
  The teachers I know are all very "soft" (in a good way, kind, empathic), in it for the kids, they don't complain, and have lot of passion. Anyone from my industry forced into a teachers job would raise hell or leave at these conditions and this pay. Maybe teachers feel stuck? It's normal for them? Idk, it's a complex situation.
- nemo44x 5y ago
  They work fewer hours than most people, which is another attractive part. On average about 35 hours a week when the school year is in session and then of course nearly no time at all in June, July, and August. They also get weeks of breaks during the school year around Christmas and in the spring. Being a teacher won't get you rich but it's a pretty sweet job for people that don't want to work much/do the corporate ladder thing, only work when their own kids are at school (big benefit!), and want generally good benefits, etc.
nemo44x 5y ago
People who pay a significant amount of taxes don't often send their kids to public schools where staff is paid poorly. Many communities choose to have a low property tax rate and give minimum funding to the schools and the parents can then use the money they saved and spend it on private education. People without kids enjoy this scheme as well as they aren't paying for other people's kids. For example, you could live in a community where the public school offers a low salary to teachers but you don't send your kids there. Instead you send them to a prep school where you pay $30k-$60k per year. The classes are small and the best teachers are attracted to the school as the student body is more enjoyable to teach and the pay is better too.
AniseAbyss 5y ago
Unfortunately those working in fields like education and healthcare have too much empathy. They don't go on strike or have a 9 to 5 mentality. Capitalism favours the narcissistic and the psychopath.

It’s a big problem. When we moved to NC my girlfriend started working at my son’s school (preschool). The $17/hr she gets is considered the top end of the pay range for her job… $17/hr! She’s got a college degree!

randomdata 5y ago
> She’s got a college degree! Is that significant? The preschool I send my child to's child care provider has a boat. Neither factor into my purchasing decision. Everyone is going to have hobbies of some sort outside of work. How much I will pay isn't going to change depending on what hobbies they have chosen.
- bsagdiyev 5y ago
  Yeah that makes no sense. I would prefer my child is taught by someone who is at least accredited by the state. Of which a college degree is typically required. My point though was that she attended college and earns a shit wage, whereas I didn’t graduate high school but fell in to tech. Most tech jobs provide absolutely no value to the planet, mine included, compared to the value a teacher provides children.
  - randomdata 5y ago
    > My point though was that she attended college Your point is unclear. What difference does this make? She could have once travelled to the moon, but that wouldn't make her participation in the same job worth more. The buyers of services pay for the work being done, not for what you may have done in the past. They do not care about your hobbies. Do you think people are paying less for the software you help create because you didn't graduate from high school? Of course not. They couldn't care less. They are only concerned about what the software can do for them. > Most tech jobs provide absolutely no value to the planet, mine included, compared to the value a teacher provides children. Problem is that childcare doesn't scale very well. A single person can only care for so many children, especially when they are young. This means that the cost can only be distributed across so many parents. If the cost to the parents is too high, the parents will stay home and provide that care themselves. In contrast, a 99¢ app across many millions of customers provides very nice scalability and a fortune for those involved in it. Per customer, the childcare provider is paid substantially more, but is limited to how many customers they can have. Perhaps someone with a college degree should be using their experience to solve for the scalability issues, but a hobby one had in the past is no indication that they have interest in continuing with that hobby, so it is unrealistic to place that expectation on anyone.
notyourday 5y ago
There's no free lunch. Most of school budget comes from the property taxes inside school districts. To pay teachers more money, the voters simply need to go through whatever are the steps to increase the property taxes to accommodate the budget increase. Until that is done, all of this is just talk.
gruez 5y ago
>The $17/hr she gets is considered the top end of the pay range for her job… $17/hr! She’s got a college degree! is $17/hr supposed to be outrageously low? According to[1], the median wage in NC is $35,750/year, or $17.19/hr. Someone with a college degree making median wage, in a job that pays below median wage[2] doesn't seem too outrageous. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._states_and_territories_by_median_wage_and_mean_wage https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._states_and_territ... [2] https://www.bls.gov/oes/2020/may/oes_nat.htm https://www.bls.gov/oes/2020/may/oes_nat.htm, comparing "Preschool Teachers, Except Special Education" $15.35 median hourly wage, against "all occupations" with $20.17 median hourly wage.

folkrav 5y ago

This is one of the main reasons why I left the field before even graduating (elementary education, left halfway through the degree). The amount of bullshit you have to deal with on top of the terrible compensation and how little people seem to value the profession despite its importance played a big part. I'm not even 5 years out of school as a dev (and not even as a college level graduate), I already make way more than I would have been 15 years into my teaching career (max salary!), my schedule and quality of life are orders of magnitude better. I don't regret my decision other than the impact having a man teacher can have on some of those kids.

mensetmanusman 5y ago
You can still volunteer with the kiddos, maker spaces!
- folkrav 5y ago
  Yeah, I did scouts for a couple of years. I'd like to do some dev coaching at some point, maybe. COVID put a brake to some of my plans, but I'm having a lot of fun teaching my 4yo son in the meantime haha.
giantg2 5y ago
"The amount of bullshit you have to deal with" This. My state pays well. I have friend who earned his teaching cert but never used it because of how terrible student teaching was, including child behavior and school policies.
nemo44x 5y ago
You should consider you've only been a dev in a massive bull market for software engineers. Teachers don't get laid off or face the types of uncertainty other types of careers do. You'll always make more money in private industry but you will probably work more and have less time off. Teachers get a lot of time off and work about 35 hours per week during the school year. And then of course the summers. It's an especially good career if you have kids yourself as you are home when they are.

criddell 5y ago

I think it might be out of date. I just looked up the salary scale for the Texas school district my kids went to and a new teacher starts at $50,900 for ten months of work. That doesn't seem too bad to me. https://drive.google.com/file/d/1RrA-OUnfVui8ACFEusfDSzRzL4w2SUuW/view https://drive.google.com/file/d/1RrA-OUnfVui8ACFEusfDSzRzL4w...

mmcgaha 5y ago

So we all have choices to make, and some people choose to become teachers. Now there are a lot of reasons that people make that choice, but I am sure that money is not one of them. So what happens once they get there that makes them decide they are underpaid? Maybe the problem isn't the money but how they are treated by parents and administration.

teekert 5y ago
The teachers I know are all very "soft" (in a good way, kind, empathic), in it for the kids, they don't complain, and have lot of passion. Anyone from my industry forced into a teachers job would raise hell or leave at these conditions and this pay. Maybe teachers feel stuck? It's normal for them? Idk, it's a complex situation.
nemo44x 5y ago
They work fewer hours than most people, which is another attractive part. On average about 35 hours a week when the school year is in session and then of course nearly no time at all in June, July, and August. They also get weeks of breaks during the school year around Christmas and in the spring. Being a teacher won't get you rich but it's a pretty sweet job for people that don't want to work much/do the corporate ladder thing, only work when their own kids are at school (big benefit!), and want generally good benefits, etc.

nemo44x 5y ago

People who pay a significant amount of taxes don't often send their kids to public schools where staff is paid poorly. Many communities choose to have a low property tax rate and give minimum funding to the schools and the parents can then use the money they saved and spend it on private education. People without kids enjoy this scheme as well as they aren't paying for other people's kids. For example, you could live in a community where the public school offers a low salary to teachers but you don't send your kids there. Instead you send them to a prep school where you pay $30k-$60k per year. The classes are small and the best teachers are attracted to the school as the student body is more enjoyable to teach and the pay is better too.

AniseAbyss 5y ago

Unfortunately those working in fields like education and healthcare have too much empathy. They don't go on strike or have a 9 to 5 mentality. Capitalism favours the narcissistic and the psychopath.