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Retailers of all sizes can do those things. But go ahead, start an e-commerce business, and implement those things without Amazon or Shopify. Have a couple of

Retailers of all sizes can do those things. But go ahead, start an e-commerce business, and implement those things without Amazon or Shopify. Have a couple of good quarters, dish out for some marketing to speed up your growth. Then, watch the look-alike product appear on Amazon at a price 15% below your unit costs, because they do everything on the list more efficiently, didn't have to ramp up processes or prove their market, and are still on the part of the growth curve where Amazon supplies them at cost. Survive until the holidays and bulk up your inventory for black friday spending, then get swamped in chargebacks because your Amazon-platformed competition undercut your prices with a bundle deal including stuff you don't sell. Cheer up though -- if your product is really great, you'll get to see that competitor displaced by an Amazon Basics brand a few weeks later. America's rich customers and friendly government were not for you.

newsbinator 5y ago
You've painted an accurate picture. At the end of that process, you have a situation where: * Amazon wins * The consumer wins (they get the product they wanted all along, at the best possible price, with the best possible shipping) * The original Amazon retailer semi-wins (they got a "free" burst of profit for 6 ~ 24 months before they had to switch categories when Amazon stole their category) * The original non-Amazon retailer loses (they got outcompeted by a giant of scale, possibly overall losing money)
- kwertyoowiyop 5y ago
  Does the consumer even really win? Once Amazon/whoever has a monopoly, they get to decide when and how to innovate, and the prices. Is the product now as good and as cheap as it could have been with more competition? Their PR and lawyers will say “yes” and who can prove otherwise?
- evrydayhustling 5y ago
  Agree with these outcomes in the short term. Amazon is at a point in its trajectory where it is still genuinely innovating in order to build dominance, and that is creating a surplus that can be shared with consumers and platform participants. It has stayed at that point -- which Bezos calls "day 0" -- for an amazingly long time! On the inevitable "day 1", Amazon will start coasting on its structural dominance and being net-extractive from consumers and platform participants. At that point they will be ripe for disruption themselves... but if their dominance has eroded previously healthy markets (for demand acquisition, warehousing, last mile logistics, etc.), they might spend longer in senescence than they did improving things. That's why I think antitrust is a good tool, that should eventually be applied to catalyze fresh growth.
  - baybal2 5y ago
    > Amazon is at a point in its trajectory where it is still genuinely innovating in order to build dominance, There is really nothing innovative about Amazon, really nothing. It's a web hosting company, and a huge internet shop. That's all to it.
    - newsbinator 5y ago
      If we measure "innovation" by solving hard CS problems, sure. But one definition of innovation is: > make changes in something established, especially by introducing new methods, ideas, or products. Focussing on the eComm side: Amazon made and continues to make changes in how people find stuff, pay for stuff, and get stuff. Even something as seemingly simple as Amazon Prime for free+fast shipping. Or keeping a credit card on file and jumping straight to "checkout complete" first, and letting the user modify shipping/billing details for a while after the order is "complete". None of it was invented at Amazon and all of it is trivial to implement on a small or perhaps medium scale. Amazon's innovation is implementing Amazon.
      - baybal2 5y ago
        I don't you understand you at all.
baybal2 5y ago
Amazon's own markups are huge. Half the times, Amazon's stuff costs more than at upmarket conventional retailers. I fail to understand how people don't see it.
SubuSS 5y ago
Well the Chinese knock offs usually appear way before the Amazon basics one (I agree the gap here is shrinking). So assume Amazon gets ‘taken care’ of magically - what’s the solution for the bigger problem here? Unless we go back to a world of strong nationalistic sentiment where customers are willing to put their money towards’Made in USA’ - I don’t know how this gets solved. Bezos famously said ‘nobody wants to pay more for a thing’ (paraphrase).

newsbinator 5y ago

You've painted an accurate picture. At the end of that process, you have a situation where: * Amazon wins * The consumer wins (they get the product they wanted all along, at the best possible price, with the best possible shipping) * The original Amazon retailer semi-wins (they got a "free" burst of profit for 6 ~ 24 months before they had to switch categories when Amazon stole their category) * The original non-Amazon retailer loses (they got outcompeted by a giant of scale, possibly overall losing money)

kwertyoowiyop 5y ago
Does the consumer even really win? Once Amazon/whoever has a monopoly, they get to decide when and how to innovate, and the prices. Is the product now as good and as cheap as it could have been with more competition? Their PR and lawyers will say “yes” and who can prove otherwise?
evrydayhustling 5y ago
Agree with these outcomes in the short term. Amazon is at a point in its trajectory where it is still genuinely innovating in order to build dominance, and that is creating a surplus that can be shared with consumers and platform participants. It has stayed at that point -- which Bezos calls "day 0" -- for an amazingly long time! On the inevitable "day 1", Amazon will start coasting on its structural dominance and being net-extractive from consumers and platform participants. At that point they will be ripe for disruption themselves... but if their dominance has eroded previously healthy markets (for demand acquisition, warehousing, last mile logistics, etc.), they might spend longer in senescence than they did improving things. That's why I think antitrust is a good tool, that should eventually be applied to catalyze fresh growth.
- baybal2 5y ago
  > Amazon is at a point in its trajectory where it is still genuinely innovating in order to build dominance, There is really nothing innovative about Amazon, really nothing. It's a web hosting company, and a huge internet shop. That's all to it.
  - newsbinator 5y ago
    If we measure "innovation" by solving hard CS problems, sure. But one definition of innovation is: > make changes in something established, especially by introducing new methods, ideas, or products. Focussing on the eComm side: Amazon made and continues to make changes in how people find stuff, pay for stuff, and get stuff. Even something as seemingly simple as Amazon Prime for free+fast shipping. Or keeping a credit card on file and jumping straight to "checkout complete" first, and letting the user modify shipping/billing details for a while after the order is "complete". None of it was invented at Amazon and all of it is trivial to implement on a small or perhaps medium scale. Amazon's innovation is implementing Amazon.
    - baybal2 5y ago
      I don't you understand you at all.

baybal2 5y ago

Amazon's own markups are huge. Half the times, Amazon's stuff costs more than at upmarket conventional retailers. I fail to understand how people don't see it.

SubuSS 5y ago

Well the Chinese knock offs usually appear way before the Amazon basics one (I agree the gap here is shrinking). So assume Amazon gets ‘taken care’ of magically - what’s the solution for the bigger problem here? Unless we go back to a world of strong nationalistic sentiment where customers are willing to put their money towards’Made in USA’ - I don’t know how this gets solved. Bezos famously said ‘nobody wants to pay more for a thing’ (paraphrase).