5 ms·

Since march of this year I stopped following my eye doctor's advice ("wear your glasses as much as possible otherwise your brain gets lazy", which is proven BS)

by Aulig 5y ago

Since march of this year I stopped following my eye doctor's advice ("wear your glasses as much as possible otherwise your brain gets lazy", which is proven BS) and looked into endmyopia (i think i even read about it on HN), as I was getting into the risk zone for retinal detachment (6 diopters), which can lead to blindness. To sum it up: reduce the amount of near-work you do (looking at your monitor, smartphone, books, etc) and, if you already have glasses, use glasses with a reduced prescription or no glasses for near-work. With these rules I've managed to go from -5.5/-6 to -3.5/-3.75 in just these 9 months. And that's with me still spending 12h a day on my computer. Pro tip: you can get very cheap (as little as $3) myopia glasses from aliexpress or a bit more expensive zenni optical. So there's really no big barrier to entry. Side note: Lasik only cures the symptom of bad vision (just like glasses), but not the cause (elongated eyeball, which is what increases the likelihood of retinal detachment). If you don't change your habits after lasik, chances are you will need glasses again a couple years later as your eyeball further elongates, see: 35% are above 0.5 diopters again just 3 years after lasik https://bjo.bmj.com/content/103/4/565.abstract https://bjo.bmj.com/content/103/4/565.abstract 58% are above 1 diopter again after 7 to 8 years. https://www.proquest.com/openview/722546068e4b0c9c1d3acba7e36aaa18/1?pq-origsite=gscholar&cbl=34110 https://www.proquest.com/openview/722546068e4b0c9c1d3acba7e3... I recommend you read more on endmyopia.org to learn about the scientific background and the eye biology behind it. But what I summed up above should easily get you started though and in just a couple of months you should notice improvements in your eyesight (you can test it at home by printing a Snellen eye chart). Finally going to the eye doctor is no longer frustrating because my eyes are improving instead of getting worse year by year :)

comeonseriously 5y ago
> Pro tip: you can get very cheap (as little as $3) myopia glasses from aliexpress or a bit more expensive zenni optical. So there's really no big barrier to entry. Pro tip: with 6 diopters, make damn sure you get your PD correct. Otherwise the headaches you get from the induced prism just won't make it worth it.
- Aulig 5y ago
  I had no issues with that luckily, but if you order a custom prescription, many aliexpress sellers also ask for your pupillary distance. With zenni you always give your PD I think (I haven't tried it, but zenni is very popular in the endmyopia community).
  - comeonseriously 5y ago
    Could be working in your favor. Most off the rack glasses are made with a 60mm PD because that's a good average. So if you have, say, a 62 mm PD and you're wearing them to use a laptop, your eyes will be converging a bit anyway. It is much worse if you have a narrow PD, say 56. Before convergence, you already have over 2 diopters of prism wanting to spread your eyes outward.
    - Aulig 5y ago
      Oh interesting, thanks for letting me know. I'll have to look into that topic a bit more :) My PD is around 64mm and I'll be receiving glasses with that PD soon. It will be interesting to see if I notice any difference to my other glasses.
      - comeonseriously 5y ago
        You're welcome. And just to clarify, I don't have anything against your process (I've used Zenni myself), I just wanted to make the point about being careful with the PD.
        Aulig 5y ago
        Oh no worries, I didn't understand it in a negative way. I'm always happy to learn new things - especially in this case as it does sound important and I haven't really been paying attention to PD.
- qbantek 5y ago
  Most (all?) of the cheap online retailers allow to (some require to!) enter a PD value and also provide instructions on how to measure it. I personally use https://www.goggles4u.com/ https://www.goggles4u.com/, they are cheap but not quick since they probably order from China.
was_a_dev 5y ago
Can you give a summary of what the "endmyopia" process is? The website claims the idea is based on peer reviewed research, but all the links and guides lead to what appears to be clickbait styled videos and testemonials. Overall it isn't clear and doesn't really sell the idea to me
- Aulig 5y ago
  Yea, that's sort of the founder's style. He has a very ironic and not very serious way of writing that drives a lot of people away. He does it intentionally though, as he wants people to really look into the topic and understand it, instead of just listening to "5 easy steps to fix your eyes in 1 week!" and then encountering problems. You can find the research linked in these posts: https://endmyopia.org/category/science/ https://endmyopia.org/category/science/ The summary is basically this: You increased your eyeball length from too much near work and lens usage. This further increases your myopia. To reverse it, use lenses appropriate to your task (reduced lenses for near work) and reduce near work in general. I can recommend the free 7 day email guide, it's probably the closest to a coherent overview about the whole topic.
frontman1988 5y ago
i earlier dismissed endmyopia as a pseudoscience given doctors are against it. But it does make sense that eyeballs that have elongated beyond their size and hence caused myopia can also come back to their nature size improving vision as well. Gotta try it for myself though.
- Aulig 5y ago
  Best of luck! I first heard about it 3 years or so ago, but also dismissed it until I found out I could just try it out at almost no cost with glasses from Aliexpress. One of my best decisions of the past few years :)
Buttons840 5y ago
> With these rules I've managed to go from -5.5/-6 to -3.5/-3.75 in just these 9 months. And that's with me still spending 12h a day on my computer. Do you mean you've gotten used to a weaker pair of glasses? Can you actually see just as well, and how have you tested that? Are you around 40 (far vision improves around that age)?
- Aulig 5y ago
  I always use weaker glasses on my computer now (around 1.5 diopters less than my full correction). I just reduce that reduced correction step by step (recommended is .25 diopter reductions, .5 worked for me too though) when it feels right (aka when I can see the screen decently well even with the new weaker glasses). So I started by using -4 glasses at the computer and now I use -2. To check my current eyesight, I use a printed Snellen chart and the focal calculator https://endmyopia.org/focal-calculator/calc.html https://endmyopia.org/focal-calculator/calc.html The focal calculator is less accurate, but over mutliple measurements it averages out and adds up to a similar result as the Snellen chart for me. No, I'm in my early twenties. Yes, fully corrected, I can even see better than before to be honest. My eye doctor told me last time (before I started endmyopia) that I only have around 80% vision, even with glasses. I noticed that when playing tennis, I had trouble telling if balls were still in the opponents field because I couldn't see the back line properly. Last time I played I noticed how much better I could see it :)
  - VMtest 5y ago
    I couldn't believe what I just read... What you said is basically what I read 7~8 years ago when I was in my early twenties I searched and read about this method in a Chinese forum website, zhihu, IIRC. As lazy as I was, I just couldn't be serious with any methods to cure my eyesight Now that I read your comment on HN, it is actually legit lmao
    - Aulig 5y ago
      Yea, there's many similar strategies out there :) Try it out, I'm sure you can change your habits and make it work!
CountDrewku 5y ago
What if you can't even see a screen with out glasses? I'm -8 both eyes and I have to be like 6 inches from a 27" monitor to see words clearly. Seriously considering lens implants since my eyes are too bad for lasik.
- Aulig 5y ago
  That's very common, you use weaker glasses for near work then, so around -6 or -6.5 depending on your distance from your screen. You can find more information on that on the endmyopia page or wiki by looking for "differential glasses"
  - CountDrewku 5y ago
    Thanks. I'll give this a try. I don't like the feeling that if I lose my glasses or contacts I'm helpless.
    - Aulig 5y ago
      You're welcome! I get that feeling too, makes me uneasy. Best of luck on your eyesight improvement journey!
      - CountDrewku 5y ago
        Where do you buy "differential" lenses? Do you just get a lower prescription from your optometrist?
        Aulig 5y ago
        I get them from AliExpress, because it's super cheap there. Some sellers only offer very standard prescriptions (same diopters on both eyes, standard pupillary distance, no astigmatism correction). Others also offer to create glasses with custom prescriptions, just like you'd get the glasses from the optician. Zenni Optical also offers custom prescriptions, but is more expensive (likely still a lot cheaper than your local optician). But you can totally also get glasses with a lower prescription from your regular optician, but as you will relatively frequently need new glasses, that can get expensive (at least here in Germany it would, and I heard in the USA glasses cost up to $1000).
ajvs 5y ago
Great to see another reader out in the wild. Mainstream optometry just making the problem worse to keep you as a customer instead of curing you is the same sort of issue that happens in so many industries from orthodontics to nutrition.
RedBeetDeadpool 5y ago
Understanding exactly how much of modern health systems/guidelines are based off of capitalism incentivized research which then get some form of regulatory stamps of approval is appalling. Not griping about capitalism, I think its the best thing out there for the economy, its just that we haven't figured out a way to prevent it from creating authoritative science backed research that somehow always promotes the funding party's product.
- zuj 5y ago
  That's exactly my thoughts. This is crazy. It is basically the wrong alignment of incentives. Wonder how we are going to protect ourselves from it right now and fix the system.
  - Aulig 5y ago
    Well, in this case part of the issue is that people want a quick fix to see well again (put on the glasses and done). Changing your habits is more work, but simple education like (take off your glasses for near work) would go anlong way, yea.

by Aulig 5y ago

comeonseriously 5y ago

> Pro tip: you can get very cheap (as little as $3) myopia glasses from aliexpress or a bit more expensive zenni optical. So there's really no big barrier to entry. Pro tip: with 6 diopters, make damn sure you get your PD correct. Otherwise the headaches you get from the induced prism just won't make it worth it.

Aulig 5y ago
I had no issues with that luckily, but if you order a custom prescription, many aliexpress sellers also ask for your pupillary distance. With zenni you always give your PD I think (I haven't tried it, but zenni is very popular in the endmyopia community).
- comeonseriously 5y ago
  Could be working in your favor. Most off the rack glasses are made with a 60mm PD because that's a good average. So if you have, say, a 62 mm PD and you're wearing them to use a laptop, your eyes will be converging a bit anyway. It is much worse if you have a narrow PD, say 56. Before convergence, you already have over 2 diopters of prism wanting to spread your eyes outward.
  - Aulig 5y ago
    Oh interesting, thanks for letting me know. I'll have to look into that topic a bit more :) My PD is around 64mm and I'll be receiving glasses with that PD soon. It will be interesting to see if I notice any difference to my other glasses.
    - comeonseriously 5y ago
      You're welcome. And just to clarify, I don't have anything against your process (I've used Zenni myself), I just wanted to make the point about being careful with the PD.
      - Aulig 5y ago
        Oh no worries, I didn't understand it in a negative way. I'm always happy to learn new things - especially in this case as it does sound important and I haven't really been paying attention to PD.
qbantek 5y ago
Most (all?) of the cheap online retailers allow to (some require to!) enter a PD value and also provide instructions on how to measure it. I personally use https://www.goggles4u.com/ https://www.goggles4u.com/, they are cheap but not quick since they probably order from China.

was_a_dev 5y ago

Can you give a summary of what the "endmyopia" process is? The website claims the idea is based on peer reviewed research, but all the links and guides lead to what appears to be clickbait styled videos and testemonials. Overall it isn't clear and doesn't really sell the idea to me

Aulig 5y ago
Yea, that's sort of the founder's style. He has a very ironic and not very serious way of writing that drives a lot of people away. He does it intentionally though, as he wants people to really look into the topic and understand it, instead of just listening to "5 easy steps to fix your eyes in 1 week!" and then encountering problems. You can find the research linked in these posts: https://endmyopia.org/category/science/ https://endmyopia.org/category/science/ The summary is basically this: You increased your eyeball length from too much near work and lens usage. This further increases your myopia. To reverse it, use lenses appropriate to your task (reduced lenses for near work) and reduce near work in general. I can recommend the free 7 day email guide, it's probably the closest to a coherent overview about the whole topic.

frontman1988 5y ago

i earlier dismissed endmyopia as a pseudoscience given doctors are against it. But it does make sense that eyeballs that have elongated beyond their size and hence caused myopia can also come back to their nature size improving vision as well. Gotta try it for myself though.

Aulig 5y ago
Best of luck! I first heard about it 3 years or so ago, but also dismissed it until I found out I could just try it out at almost no cost with glasses from Aliexpress. One of my best decisions of the past few years :)

Buttons840 5y ago

> With these rules I've managed to go from -5.5/-6 to -3.5/-3.75 in just these 9 months. And that's with me still spending 12h a day on my computer. Do you mean you've gotten used to a weaker pair of glasses? Can you actually see just as well, and how have you tested that? Are you around 40 (far vision improves around that age)?

Aulig 5y ago
I always use weaker glasses on my computer now (around 1.5 diopters less than my full correction). I just reduce that reduced correction step by step (recommended is .25 diopter reductions, .5 worked for me too though) when it feels right (aka when I can see the screen decently well even with the new weaker glasses). So I started by using -4 glasses at the computer and now I use -2. To check my current eyesight, I use a printed Snellen chart and the focal calculator https://endmyopia.org/focal-calculator/calc.html https://endmyopia.org/focal-calculator/calc.html The focal calculator is less accurate, but over mutliple measurements it averages out and adds up to a similar result as the Snellen chart for me. No, I'm in my early twenties. Yes, fully corrected, I can even see better than before to be honest. My eye doctor told me last time (before I started endmyopia) that I only have around 80% vision, even with glasses. I noticed that when playing tennis, I had trouble telling if balls were still in the opponents field because I couldn't see the back line properly. Last time I played I noticed how much better I could see it :)
- VMtest 5y ago
  I couldn't believe what I just read... What you said is basically what I read 7~8 years ago when I was in my early twenties I searched and read about this method in a Chinese forum website, zhihu, IIRC. As lazy as I was, I just couldn't be serious with any methods to cure my eyesight Now that I read your comment on HN, it is actually legit lmao
  - Aulig 5y ago
    Yea, there's many similar strategies out there :) Try it out, I'm sure you can change your habits and make it work!

CountDrewku 5y ago

What if you can't even see a screen with out glasses? I'm -8 both eyes and I have to be like 6 inches from a 27" monitor to see words clearly. Seriously considering lens implants since my eyes are too bad for lasik.

Aulig 5y ago
That's very common, you use weaker glasses for near work then, so around -6 or -6.5 depending on your distance from your screen. You can find more information on that on the endmyopia page or wiki by looking for "differential glasses"
- CountDrewku 5y ago
  Thanks. I'll give this a try. I don't like the feeling that if I lose my glasses or contacts I'm helpless.
  - Aulig 5y ago
    You're welcome! I get that feeling too, makes me uneasy. Best of luck on your eyesight improvement journey!
    - CountDrewku 5y ago
      Where do you buy "differential" lenses? Do you just get a lower prescription from your optometrist?
      - Aulig 5y ago
        I get them from AliExpress, because it's super cheap there. Some sellers only offer very standard prescriptions (same diopters on both eyes, standard pupillary distance, no astigmatism correction). Others also offer to create glasses with custom prescriptions, just like you'd get the glasses from the optician. Zenni Optical also offers custom prescriptions, but is more expensive (likely still a lot cheaper than your local optician). But you can totally also get glasses with a lower prescription from your regular optician, but as you will relatively frequently need new glasses, that can get expensive (at least here in Germany it would, and I heard in the USA glasses cost up to $1000).

ajvs 5y ago

Great to see another reader out in the wild. Mainstream optometry just making the problem worse to keep you as a customer instead of curing you is the same sort of issue that happens in so many industries from orthodontics to nutrition.

RedBeetDeadpool 5y ago

Understanding exactly how much of modern health systems/guidelines are based off of capitalism incentivized research which then get some form of regulatory stamps of approval is appalling. Not griping about capitalism, I think its the best thing out there for the economy, its just that we haven't figured out a way to prevent it from creating authoritative science backed research that somehow always promotes the funding party's product.

zuj 5y ago
That's exactly my thoughts. This is crazy. It is basically the wrong alignment of incentives. Wonder how we are going to protect ourselves from it right now and fix the system.
- Aulig 5y ago
  Well, in this case part of the issue is that people want a quick fix to see well again (put on the glasses and done). Changing your habits is more work, but simple education like (take off your glasses for near work) would go anlong way, yea.