6 ms·

I wonder what the most common jobs are in a modern city. Probably all bullshit.

technothrasher 5y ago
Healthcare and retail/restaurant work I would imagine.
bruce343434 5y ago
bullshit in whose opinion? As someone who does not believe in god, are all of the church related jobs bullshit? Or are they not, since a lot of people want churches and their services? If a job exists, there's apparently at least one person who wants it done.
- thedailymail 5y ago
  I think the parent quote may be in reference to David Graeber's commentary on "bullshit jobs".
  - bruce343434 5y ago
    I figured as much. But I don't agree with the premise of the book. Sure, we all "know" the jobs are bullshit, and yet they aren't. Let's go over the wikipedia summary at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bullshit_Jobs https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bullshit_Jobs >flunkies, who serve to make their superiors feel important, e.g., receptionists, administrative assistants, door attendants, makers of websites whose sites neglect ease of use and speed for looks; They serve, hence, not a bullshit job. We might look down on it, but they are providing value to their employer. Sadly perhaps, humans are just deeply subjective. See again my religion example. Also, this seems really dismissive of receptionists/PAs. These people do a lot of real work. >goons, who act to harm or deceive others on behalf of their employer, e.g., lobbyists, corporate lawyers, telemarketers, public relations specialists, community managers; Not very nice no, but again they provide value to their bosses. Probably to themselves too. >duct tapers, who temporarily fix problems that could be fixed permanently, e.g., programmers repairing bloated code, airline desk staff who calm passengers whose bags do not arrive; This just seems to be naïve idealism. >box tickers, who create the appearance that something useful is being done when it is not, e.g., survey administrators, in-house magazine journalists, corporate compliance officers, quality service managers; Here it gets interesting. These people may actually be the first that don't provide value, but trick others into thinking they do. >taskmasters, who manage—or create extra work for—those who do not need it, e.g., middle management, leadership professionals. This is a mix of dumb (mis)managers, and malicious time wasters. I think it's obvious that a lot of resources of all kinds are wasted by inefficiencies caused by stupidity. That's a human (as in, we as a species) problem. Then there's malice, which fits into the "tricks others into believing they provide value" category. Anyway, that's just my take on it.
    - watwut 5y ago
      > flunkies, who serve to make their superiors feel important, e.g., receptionists, administrative assistants, door attendants, makers of websites whose sites neglect ease of use and speed for looks; Imo, receptionists, administrative assistant and "makers of websites whose sites neglect ease of use and speed for looks" are all actually useful. Their function is not just to make someone feel superior. Instead, I would argue that whoever wrote that was caught in own feeling of superiority over service staff.
      - bruce343434 5y ago
        Exactly. I can't imagine running a doctors office without a reception. Or really any public facing company/office without a reception. Would anyone like to have the dentist use his time to answer the phone rather than fix teeth? Seems like that would under utilize the dentist's degree.
        kwhitefoot 5y ago
        Reception at my doctor's in Norway are all qualified nurses. My sister on the other hand goes to a surgery in the UK has a dedicated receptionist. My sister's experience of visiting the surgery is considerably worse than mine. At the dental practice that I use the hygienists take turns to run the reception desk. > Would anyone like to have the dentist use his time to answer the phone rather than fix teeth? I don't care who answers the telephone as long as they are competent to answer questions and have authority to solve problems.
        brianwawok 5y ago
        Wouldn't that raise prices, to use a nurse as a reception? In the US it would be something like: Receptionist: 30k / year Nurse: 80k / year. So you have: Doctor's office 1: 3x Nurse, 240k per year in salary Doctor's office 2: 2x Nurse, 1x Receptionist, 190k pear year. That 50k in extra cost has to come from somewhere. Lower paid doctors, higher costs, ???
- smitty1e 5y ago
  Church worker; social worker: what's the difference?
  - watwut 5y ago
    That they are two massively different occupations, with different goals, different processes and different regulations they fall under. Just about the only thing they have the same is low salary.
    - PeterisP 5y ago
      The point is that there's more overlap than how it looks like on the surface level. E.g. part of what a A.D. 1500 village pastor does is what's done nowadays by psychotherapists and marriage counselors; the role in filling the people's needs is similar even if the processes and regulations are wildly different, just as the processes and regulations of A.D. 1500 shoemaker or surgeon are wildly different than the modern shoe factory worker or surgeon.
- agumonkey 5y ago
  That's ignoring a lot of structure induced jobs. Often nobody wants it done but you can't fire a person so you invent a role. Or sometimes the need is mostly a factor of higher rank carelessness or incompetence.. fix the tooling and there's no need to hire 5 more guys to grind through endless papers or mails.
s5300 5y ago
Something related to Wal-Mart. Seriously.
- baud147258 5y ago
  or maybe Amazon now
thorin 5y ago
I guess a recent pandemic would have shown which jobs were important these days: Farmers Truck Drivers Shop Staff Medical Specialists Teachers Infrastructure specialists (power,fuel,extending into IT work) --- Purveyors of leisure activities, bars/brewing, restaurants/takeaways, online gaming, gambling --- Venture capitalists and financial experts Consultants specializing in skimming and offshoring Sales, marketing and influencers I'll let you assign the weightings
agumonkey 5y ago
It all boils down to what a good job means for a human. I may be special but I find a few axis that I need: - skillful - useful - well organized enough Today people don't do much, they don't master much, most of it is done far away in large shops or plants. It's rarely that useful (we're overwhelmingly comfy) and recent management practices are surreal most of the time. I talked to a few people that prefered low wage in exchange for more skills or usefulness, even if the job might look less impressive in the first place.
dmurray 5y ago
Probably not. Of course, it's highly dependent on how you group related professions, but according to [0], which has a granularity similar to our medieval source, the three most common occupations in New York in 2020 were retail salespeople, nurses and labourers. You need to get to 4 and 5 before the office and management jobs usually associated with the "bullshit jobs" epithet start to appear. [0] https://stacker.com/new-york/new-york-city/most-common-jobs-new-york-city https://stacker.com/new-york/new-york-city/most-common-jobs-...
Cthulhu_ 5y ago
Dunno about major cities, but there's national statistics for these things: https://www.bls.gov/emp/tables/employment-by-major-industry-sector.htm https://www.bls.gov/emp/tables/employment-by-major-industry-...
- gullywhumper 5y ago
  BLS has the OEWS (occupational employment and wage statistics) at the national, state, and metropolitan/CBSA levels. https://www.bls.gov/oes/home.htm https://www.bls.gov/oes/home.htm
errcorrectcode 5y ago
"Executive communication facilitator" ranks up there in terms of BS, but not that common. Most common would be truck driver, for-hire driver, salesperson, lawyer, or janitor.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
izzymiller 5y ago
I grabbed some public data and took a quick look in comparison: https://app.hex.tech/hex-public/app/fffe29ce-a5b2-42b7-92d5-76ab7e239ddf/latest https://app.hex.tech/hex-public/app/fffe29ce-a5b2-42b7-92d5-...

Healthcare and retail/restaurant work I would imagine.

bullshit in whose opinion? As someone who does not believe in god, are all of the church related jobs bullshit? Or are they not, since a lot of people want churches and their services? If a job exists, there's apparently at least one person who wants it done.

thedailymail 5y ago
I think the parent quote may be in reference to David Graeber's commentary on "bullshit jobs".
- bruce343434 5y ago
  I figured as much. But I don't agree with the premise of the book. Sure, we all "know" the jobs are bullshit, and yet they aren't. Let's go over the wikipedia summary at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bullshit_Jobs https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bullshit_Jobs >flunkies, who serve to make their superiors feel important, e.g., receptionists, administrative assistants, door attendants, makers of websites whose sites neglect ease of use and speed for looks; They serve, hence, not a bullshit job. We might look down on it, but they are providing value to their employer. Sadly perhaps, humans are just deeply subjective. See again my religion example. Also, this seems really dismissive of receptionists/PAs. These people do a lot of real work. >goons, who act to harm or deceive others on behalf of their employer, e.g., lobbyists, corporate lawyers, telemarketers, public relations specialists, community managers; Not very nice no, but again they provide value to their bosses. Probably to themselves too. >duct tapers, who temporarily fix problems that could be fixed permanently, e.g., programmers repairing bloated code, airline desk staff who calm passengers whose bags do not arrive; This just seems to be naïve idealism. >box tickers, who create the appearance that something useful is being done when it is not, e.g., survey administrators, in-house magazine journalists, corporate compliance officers, quality service managers; Here it gets interesting. These people may actually be the first that don't provide value, but trick others into thinking they do. >taskmasters, who manage—or create extra work for—those who do not need it, e.g., middle management, leadership professionals. This is a mix of dumb (mis)managers, and malicious time wasters. I think it's obvious that a lot of resources of all kinds are wasted by inefficiencies caused by stupidity. That's a human (as in, we as a species) problem. Then there's malice, which fits into the "tricks others into believing they provide value" category. Anyway, that's just my take on it.
  - watwut 5y ago
    > flunkies, who serve to make their superiors feel important, e.g., receptionists, administrative assistants, door attendants, makers of websites whose sites neglect ease of use and speed for looks; Imo, receptionists, administrative assistant and "makers of websites whose sites neglect ease of use and speed for looks" are all actually useful. Their function is not just to make someone feel superior. Instead, I would argue that whoever wrote that was caught in own feeling of superiority over service staff.
    - bruce343434 5y ago
      Exactly. I can't imagine running a doctors office without a reception. Or really any public facing company/office without a reception. Would anyone like to have the dentist use his time to answer the phone rather than fix teeth? Seems like that would under utilize the dentist's degree.
      - kwhitefoot 5y ago
        Reception at my doctor's in Norway are all qualified nurses. My sister on the other hand goes to a surgery in the UK has a dedicated receptionist. My sister's experience of visiting the surgery is considerably worse than mine. At the dental practice that I use the hygienists take turns to run the reception desk. > Would anyone like to have the dentist use his time to answer the phone rather than fix teeth? I don't care who answers the telephone as long as they are competent to answer questions and have authority to solve problems.
        brianwawok 5y ago
        Wouldn't that raise prices, to use a nurse as a reception? In the US it would be something like: Receptionist: 30k / year Nurse: 80k / year. So you have: Doctor's office 1: 3x Nurse, 240k per year in salary Doctor's office 2: 2x Nurse, 1x Receptionist, 190k pear year. That 50k in extra cost has to come from somewhere. Lower paid doctors, higher costs, ???
smitty1e 5y ago
Church worker; social worker: what's the difference?
- watwut 5y ago
  That they are two massively different occupations, with different goals, different processes and different regulations they fall under. Just about the only thing they have the same is low salary.
  - PeterisP 5y ago
    The point is that there's more overlap than how it looks like on the surface level. E.g. part of what a A.D. 1500 village pastor does is what's done nowadays by psychotherapists and marriage counselors; the role in filling the people's needs is similar even if the processes and regulations are wildly different, just as the processes and regulations of A.D. 1500 shoemaker or surgeon are wildly different than the modern shoe factory worker or surgeon.
agumonkey 5y ago
That's ignoring a lot of structure induced jobs. Often nobody wants it done but you can't fire a person so you invent a role. Or sometimes the need is mostly a factor of higher rank carelessness or incompetence.. fix the tooling and there's no need to hire 5 more guys to grind through endless papers or mails.

s5300 5y ago

Something related to Wal-Mart. Seriously.

baud147258 5y ago
or maybe Amazon now

thorin 5y ago

I guess a recent pandemic would have shown which jobs were important these days: Farmers Truck Drivers Shop Staff Medical Specialists Teachers Infrastructure specialists (power,fuel,extending into IT work) --- Purveyors of leisure activities, bars/brewing, restaurants/takeaways, online gaming, gambling --- Venture capitalists and financial experts Consultants specializing in skimming and offshoring Sales, marketing and influencers I'll let you assign the weightings

agumonkey 5y ago

It all boils down to what a good job means for a human. I may be special but I find a few axis that I need: - skillful - useful - well organized enough Today people don't do much, they don't master much, most of it is done far away in large shops or plants. It's rarely that useful (we're overwhelmingly comfy) and recent management practices are surreal most of the time. I talked to a few people that prefered low wage in exchange for more skills or usefulness, even if the job might look less impressive in the first place.

dmurray 5y ago

Probably not. Of course, it's highly dependent on how you group related professions, but according to [0], which has a granularity similar to our medieval source, the three most common occupations in New York in 2020 were retail salespeople, nurses and labourers. You need to get to 4 and 5 before the office and management jobs usually associated with the "bullshit jobs" epithet start to appear. [0] https://stacker.com/new-york/new-york-city/most-common-jobs-new-york-city https://stacker.com/new-york/new-york-city/most-common-jobs-...

Cthulhu_ 5y ago

Dunno about major cities, but there's national statistics for these things: https://www.bls.gov/emp/tables/employment-by-major-industry-sector.htm https://www.bls.gov/emp/tables/employment-by-major-industry-...

gullywhumper 5y ago
BLS has the OEWS (occupational employment and wage statistics) at the national, state, and metropolitan/CBSA levels. https://www.bls.gov/oes/home.htm https://www.bls.gov/oes/home.htm

errcorrectcode 5y ago

"Executive communication facilitator" ranks up there in terms of BS, but not that common. Most common would be truck driver, for-hire driver, salesperson, lawyer, or janitor.

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

izzymiller 5y ago

I grabbed some public data and took a quick look in comparison: https://app.hex.tech/hex-public/app/fffe29ce-a5b2-42b7-92d5-76ab7e239ddf/latest https://app.hex.tech/hex-public/app/fffe29ce-a5b2-42b7-92d5-...