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US prosecutors literally said that they cannot criminally charge JPM (in another case) because that would destabilize the US financial system. They are literall

US prosecutors literally said that they cannot criminally charge JPM (in another case) because that would destabilize the US financial system. They are literally "too big to jail".

JohnWhigham 5y ago
The Chickenshit Club everyone
maxwelldone 5y ago
What's stopping them from charging the people responsible? Are the people so irreplaceable that they are effectively JPM?
- fnordfnordfnord 5y ago
  They are not irreplaceable but it would create the sort of inverse "moral hazard" that might stop these practices, which are apparently what's being protected.
- civilized 5y ago
  Hard to imagine that the Chief Financial Spreadsheet Monkey is irreplaceable. If you want someone irreplaceable, I'd look at the COBOL programmers.
- andylei 5y ago
  they did charge them: https://www.cftc.gov/PressRoom/PressReleases/8013-19 https://www.cftc.gov/PressRoom/PressReleases/8013-19
- tedivm 5y ago
  The revolving door between the financial sector and our government- if they jailed people now then when it's their turn to get rich off of their government connections they might risk jail.
- spaetzleesser 5y ago
  It’s bad for campaign donations and bad for future highly paid job prospects in the financial industry. So politicians and agency workers have strong incentives to not be too tough on banks.
nfin 5y ago
a (good) source would've been great :)
- you-liquidated 5y ago
  > Holder’s memo asserted that “collateral consequences” from prosecutions—including corporate instability or collapse—should be taken into account when deciding whether to prosecute a big financial institution. > That sentiment was echoed as late as 2012 by Lanny Breuer, then the head of the Justice Department’s criminal division, who said in a speech at the New York City Bar Association that he felt it was his duty to consider the health of the company, the industry, and the markets in deciding whether or not to file charges. https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2015/09/how-wall-streets-bankers-stayed-out-of-jail/399368/ https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2015/09/how-wal...
  - spaetzleesser 5y ago
    Instead of worrying about the banks he should have been worried about the moral fabric of the country. At least since the bailouts 2008 there is a (mostly justified) perception that the system is rigged in favor of the wealthy. This has made a lot of people very cynical and has allowed a ton of conspiracy theories to rise. If this trend continues there will be a point when people will vote in a dictator. It’s already a big problem that politics attracts more and more crazy people and reasonable people are staying away.
    - deleted 5y ago
      [deleted]
  - nfin 5y ago
    thanks! So nice to follow up on the source!!
tootie 5y ago
Citation? That seems unlikely. It would be pretty easy to fine them in ten year installments or something to avoid killing them.
chollida1 5y ago
Can you cite a source of a US DOJ head saying the actual quote you claim they said . I work in the industry and follow things like this and I haven't heard the US government saying they would like to charge JPM but they can't due to destabilizing the US financial system. I'll even let you go back 5 years to find such a quote!! I don't think i've heard of this happening.
- you-liquidated 5y ago
  It's called the (Eric) Holder doctrine: > That sentiment was echoed as late as 2012 by Lanny Breuer, then the head of the Justice Department’s criminal division, who said in a speech at the New York City Bar Association that he felt it was his duty to consider the health of the company, the industry, and the markets in deciding whether or not to file charges. https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2015/09/how-wall-streets-bankers-stayed-out-of-jail/399368/ https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2015/09/how-wal...
  - blendergeek 5y ago
    Here is the 2012 speech from Lanny Breuer [1]. And here is the 1999 memo from (then Deputy Attorney General) Eric Holder [2 PDF]. [1] https://www.justice.gov/opa/speech/assistant-attorney-general-lanny-breuer-speaks-new-york-city-bar-association https://www.justice.gov/opa/speech/assistant-attorney-genera... [2] https://www.justice.gov/sites/default/files/criminal-fraud/legacy/2010/04/11/charging-corps.PDF https://www.justice.gov/sites/default/files/criminal-fraud/l...
  - chollida1 5y ago
    That in no way backs up your claim. 1) That was 10 years ago 2) All they said was that they consider the country as a whole when laying charges, they said nothing about they are specifically not charging banks due to this. And the fact that they just laid a huge fine against JPM blows your entire argument out of the water. I can see why you chose to create a throw away account in this case to comment. I now see i'm being trolled by an anonymous account :( I'm sorry I feel for it.
prirun 5y ago
Okay, fine. Then just permanently revoke JPM's license, and the license of any personnel involved, to do commodity trading.
rdevsrex 5y ago
Yeah, that's not the job of the judiciary to worry about that.
novok 5y ago
I feel like in those cases, especially with corporations, you can do stuff like partial nationalization or confiscation of the bank then. "Your criminally irresponsible, so we will take over part of it as the more responsible party". It's the corporate equivalent of a criminal punishment, maybe the community service equivalent.

US prosecutors literally said that they cannot criminally charge JPM (in another case) because that would destabilize the US financial system. They are literally "too big to jail".

JohnWhigham 5y ago

The Chickenshit Club everyone

maxwelldone 5y ago

What's stopping them from charging the people responsible? Are the people so irreplaceable that they are effectively JPM?

fnordfnordfnord 5y ago
They are not irreplaceable but it would create the sort of inverse "moral hazard" that might stop these practices, which are apparently what's being protected.
civilized 5y ago
Hard to imagine that the Chief Financial Spreadsheet Monkey is irreplaceable. If you want someone irreplaceable, I'd look at the COBOL programmers.
andylei 5y ago
they did charge them: https://www.cftc.gov/PressRoom/PressReleases/8013-19 https://www.cftc.gov/PressRoom/PressReleases/8013-19
tedivm 5y ago
The revolving door between the financial sector and our government- if they jailed people now then when it's their turn to get rich off of their government connections they might risk jail.
spaetzleesser 5y ago
It’s bad for campaign donations and bad for future highly paid job prospects in the financial industry. So politicians and agency workers have strong incentives to not be too tough on banks.

nfin 5y ago

a (good) source would've been great :)

you-liquidated 5y ago
> Holder’s memo asserted that “collateral consequences” from prosecutions—including corporate instability or collapse—should be taken into account when deciding whether to prosecute a big financial institution. > That sentiment was echoed as late as 2012 by Lanny Breuer, then the head of the Justice Department’s criminal division, who said in a speech at the New York City Bar Association that he felt it was his duty to consider the health of the company, the industry, and the markets in deciding whether or not to file charges. https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2015/09/how-wall-streets-bankers-stayed-out-of-jail/399368/ https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2015/09/how-wal...
- spaetzleesser 5y ago
  Instead of worrying about the banks he should have been worried about the moral fabric of the country. At least since the bailouts 2008 there is a (mostly justified) perception that the system is rigged in favor of the wealthy. This has made a lot of people very cynical and has allowed a ton of conspiracy theories to rise. If this trend continues there will be a point when people will vote in a dictator. It’s already a big problem that politics attracts more and more crazy people and reasonable people are staying away.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
- nfin 5y ago
  thanks! So nice to follow up on the source!!

tootie 5y ago

Citation? That seems unlikely. It would be pretty easy to fine them in ten year installments or something to avoid killing them.

chollida1 5y ago

Can you cite a source of a US DOJ head saying the actual quote you claim they said . I work in the industry and follow things like this and I haven't heard the US government saying they would like to charge JPM but they can't due to destabilizing the US financial system. I'll even let you go back 5 years to find such a quote!! I don't think i've heard of this happening.

you-liquidated 5y ago
It's called the (Eric) Holder doctrine: > That sentiment was echoed as late as 2012 by Lanny Breuer, then the head of the Justice Department’s criminal division, who said in a speech at the New York City Bar Association that he felt it was his duty to consider the health of the company, the industry, and the markets in deciding whether or not to file charges. https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2015/09/how-wall-streets-bankers-stayed-out-of-jail/399368/ https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2015/09/how-wal...
- blendergeek 5y ago
  Here is the 2012 speech from Lanny Breuer [1]. And here is the 1999 memo from (then Deputy Attorney General) Eric Holder [2 PDF]. [1] https://www.justice.gov/opa/speech/assistant-attorney-general-lanny-breuer-speaks-new-york-city-bar-association https://www.justice.gov/opa/speech/assistant-attorney-genera... [2] https://www.justice.gov/sites/default/files/criminal-fraud/legacy/2010/04/11/charging-corps.PDF https://www.justice.gov/sites/default/files/criminal-fraud/l...
- chollida1 5y ago
  That in no way backs up your claim. 1) That was 10 years ago 2) All they said was that they consider the country as a whole when laying charges, they said nothing about they are specifically not charging banks due to this. And the fact that they just laid a huge fine against JPM blows your entire argument out of the water. I can see why you chose to create a throw away account in this case to comment. I now see i'm being trolled by an anonymous account :( I'm sorry I feel for it.

prirun 5y ago

Okay, fine. Then just permanently revoke JPM's license, and the license of any personnel involved, to do commodity trading.

rdevsrex 5y ago

Yeah, that's not the job of the judiciary to worry about that.

novok 5y ago

I feel like in those cases, especially with corporations, you can do stuff like partial nationalization or confiscation of the bank then. "Your criminally irresponsible, so we will take over part of it as the more responsible party". It's the corporate equivalent of a criminal punishment, maybe the community service equivalent.