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It reads more like "i left because the code sucks, everyone around me is dumb, and our users are sheep" Not in the least. The fact that he doesn't say what yo

by vanusa 5y ago

It reads more like "i left because the code sucks, everyone around me is dumb, and our users are sheep" Not in the least. The fact that he doesn't say what you're saying he says ("everyone around me is dumb, and our users are sheep"), but rather simply sticks to brass tacks -- and it's pretty hard to counter his main point (about the quality of MySQL as a product), after all -- belies the characterization you are trying to make of what he said. The post just reads as bitter, Anytime anyone, heaven forbid, talks the plain and simple truth about the conditions many of us work under in this industry -- they get characterized as "bitter", "derisive", "just venting", or (especially in the context of describing our past work experiences to prospective employers), "badmouthing". Or as you put it: "childish". Such is the state of our industry.

colinmhayes 5y ago
Insulting your coworkers and users is childish, and that's exactly what this post is. "More jarring were the people who insisted everything was OK" "was hailed as “efficient” (it wasn't)." In fact that's pretty much all it is. There are plenty of ways to complain without burning every bridge around you.
- vanusa 5y ago
  "More jarring were the people who insisted everything was OK" I read this as simply being honest (in the "Dutch" sense). It wasn't like he was shit-talking his former co-workers, per se. He's just saying he had a radically different appraisal of technical viability of the flagship product. Which, again, was simply the truth as he saw it.
  - colinmhayes 5y ago
    Simply being honest doesn't mean you're not unneededly insulting everyone around you. He can say he had a radically different appraisal of the technical viability of mySQL without calling everyone he works with an idiot.
    - vanusa 5y ago
      He's not saying, or even insinuating, that they're "idiots". Really, look at the dictionary definition of the term, please.
      - colinmhayes 5y ago
        Everyone who works on mySQL is going to read this to mean he thinks they're idiots, and that's what matters.
        vanusa 5y ago
        You don't know that -- and even if some of them do, that doesn't mean that interpretation is justified.
justinator 5y ago
> Such is the state of our industry. Yeah, but the guy is worth millions, ain't he? I assume he's pulling in 6 figures?
chrsig 5y ago
Well, readings are subjective, and it's ok that you don't agree with my reading of it. But I do think that you're either mistaking "plain and simple truth" for callousness, or creating a double standard. Are descriptions such as "bitter" not the "plain and simple" truth for this post? I certainly think it reads bitterly. They're not really complaining about the work conditions, so I'm not really sure what you're referring to there. It's just code. It doesn't bite. It does ossify. It's unpleasant to deal with, but it's part of the job. It seemed like they had supportive, albeit corporate management.
- zepto 5y ago
  > Are descriptions such as "bitter" not the "plain and simple" truth for this post? I certainly think it reads bitterly. Erm, no? You yourself pointed out: “Well, readings are subjective…”
  - chrsig 5y ago
    What real facts did the author present? It's a recounting of their impression of the code base, experience on boarding, etc. Perhaps I'm being dense - could you highlight the plain and simple truth part?
    - zepto 5y ago
      It’s not about what the author wrote. Of course what they wrote was their own opinion. It’s about you reading ‘bitterness’ in to what they wrote. The bitterness is in your mind.
      - vanusa 5y ago
        The bitterness is in your mind. Agreed - across this thread, there's been a lot of what imputation of bad or petty intent and/or of a disagreeable emotional state on the part of the blog author that just isn't called for.
- vanusa 5y ago
addicted 5y ago
> Coming to MySQL was like stepping into a parallel universe, where there were lots of people genuinely believing that MySQL was a state-of-the-art product. > (it seems most MySQL users and developers don't really use other databases) > But perhaps consider taking a look at the other side of that fence at some point, past the “OMG vacuum” memes. > Monty and his merry men left because they were unhappy about the new governance, not because they suddenly woke up one day and realized what a royal mess they had created in the code. > I am genuinely proud of the work I have been doing, and MySQL 8.0 (with its ever-increasing minor version number) is a much better product than 5.7 was ————————- There’s definitely a lot of “our users are sheep” and “everyone else is dumb” going on in this post. Heck, it may even be true. But you can’t really argue that hybrid author isn’t saying it.
- vanusa 5y ago
  There’s definitely a lot of “our users are sheep” and “everyone else is dumb” going on in this post. Well, we disagree then. I see his post as making some definitely very harsh critiques -- but still short of the threshold of outright insulting people.

by vanusa 5y ago

colinmhayes 5y ago

Insulting your coworkers and users is childish, and that's exactly what this post is. "More jarring were the people who insisted everything was OK" "was hailed as “efficient” (it wasn't)." In fact that's pretty much all it is. There are plenty of ways to complain without burning every bridge around you.

vanusa 5y ago
"More jarring were the people who insisted everything was OK" I read this as simply being honest (in the "Dutch" sense). It wasn't like he was shit-talking his former co-workers, per se. He's just saying he had a radically different appraisal of technical viability of the flagship product. Which, again, was simply the truth as he saw it.
- colinmhayes 5y ago
  Simply being honest doesn't mean you're not unneededly insulting everyone around you. He can say he had a radically different appraisal of the technical viability of mySQL without calling everyone he works with an idiot.
  - vanusa 5y ago
    He's not saying, or even insinuating, that they're "idiots". Really, look at the dictionary definition of the term, please.
    - colinmhayes 5y ago
      Everyone who works on mySQL is going to read this to mean he thinks they're idiots, and that's what matters.
      - vanusa 5y ago
        You don't know that -- and even if some of them do, that doesn't mean that interpretation is justified.

justinator 5y ago

> Such is the state of our industry. Yeah, but the guy is worth millions, ain't he? I assume he's pulling in 6 figures?

chrsig 5y ago

Well, readings are subjective, and it's ok that you don't agree with my reading of it. But I do think that you're either mistaking "plain and simple truth" for callousness, or creating a double standard. Are descriptions such as "bitter" not the "plain and simple" truth for this post? I certainly think it reads bitterly. They're not really complaining about the work conditions, so I'm not really sure what you're referring to there. It's just code. It doesn't bite. It does ossify. It's unpleasant to deal with, but it's part of the job. It seemed like they had supportive, albeit corporate management.

zepto 5y ago
> Are descriptions such as "bitter" not the "plain and simple" truth for this post? I certainly think it reads bitterly. Erm, no? You yourself pointed out: “Well, readings are subjective…”
- chrsig 5y ago
  What real facts did the author present? It's a recounting of their impression of the code base, experience on boarding, etc. Perhaps I'm being dense - could you highlight the plain and simple truth part?
  - zepto 5y ago
    It’s not about what the author wrote. Of course what they wrote was their own opinion. It’s about you reading ‘bitterness’ in to what they wrote. The bitterness is in your mind.
    - vanusa 5y ago
      The bitterness is in your mind. Agreed - across this thread, there's been a lot of what imputation of bad or petty intent and/or of a disagreeable emotional state on the part of the blog author that just isn't called for.
vanusa 5y ago

addicted 5y ago

> Coming to MySQL was like stepping into a parallel universe, where there were lots of people genuinely believing that MySQL was a state-of-the-art product. > (it seems most MySQL users and developers don't really use other databases) > But perhaps consider taking a look at the other side of that fence at some point, past the “OMG vacuum” memes. > Monty and his merry men left because they were unhappy about the new governance, not because they suddenly woke up one day and realized what a royal mess they had created in the code. > I am genuinely proud of the work I have been doing, and MySQL 8.0 (with its ever-increasing minor version number) is a much better product than 5.7 was ————————- There’s definitely a lot of “our users are sheep” and “everyone else is dumb” going on in this post. Heck, it may even be true. But you can’t really argue that hybrid author isn’t saying it.

vanusa 5y ago
There’s definitely a lot of “our users are sheep” and “everyone else is dumb” going on in this post. Well, we disagree then. I see his post as making some definitely very harsh critiques -- but still short of the threshold of outright insulting people.