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Perhaps you should remove your political colored glasses and consider things objectively. A company can be both remarkable in its achievements and have committe

Perhaps you should remove your political colored glasses and consider things objectively. A company can be both remarkable in its achievements and have committed labor abuses. > doesn't pay taxes Yes, that's what R&D investment is. They "make" billions but reinvest all of it into growth so they pay no tax. If you somehow split off AWS and taxed its profits separately Amazon would just increase its R&D spending on AWS and go back to paying $0 in tax. This is a good policy, by the way. You want to encourage companies to make use of their money rather than returning it to shareholders. That creates more jobs and results in more technological and economic growth.

barbazoo 5y ago
Let's not forget that they also use(d) actual tax avoidance schemes via Ireland, Luxembourg, etc. It's not just that they invested all their money back into their business.
- ozzythecat 5y ago
  Every large American company and every American business owner is involved in minimizing their tax burden. Why is it “wrong” when Amazon or any other large company does it? I took every write off I could last year to minimize my tax burden. Am I also a bad person? I can actually respect Amazon. They reinvest a huge chunk of the change into new business verticals and create new jobs. Let’s say Amazon paid another $N billion in taxes. Where would the money go? To Washington politicians who’ve been promising change and reform in education, infrastructure, healthcare - at least my entire existence on this planet of not longer. Why should we give them money? Who holds them accountable, and regardless of your politics, how well has that worked out? Americas politicians optimize for their reelection. None of them, not the career officials or the one or two term presidents, regardless of political party, have done much to optimize for the marathon. Bezos was apparently going to go bankrupt and Amazons model just wasn’t sustainable - according to the same media that cheerleads the two political parties. Yet, here we are, and the failed politicians and divisive media has no ideas other than blaming successful companies. You could take every penny of Amazon and Apples total market cap and hand it to Washington and state governments. You believe anything will change and will stop overspending every year and adding to the national debt? Who will politicians blame then? Tesla? Ha!
  - barbazoo 5y ago
    You seem to be questioning taxes/government in general, I'm not gonna comment on that. Sure, individuals and companies can use the rules of the system to minimize the tax they're paying. Everyone does that. But companies like Amazon also have a responsibility to the country they operate in and in my opinion should pay taxes there. Just because some financial wizard figured out that that there is such a thing as a double dutch sandwich or what it's called doesn't mean everyone has to eat it.
    - GhettoComputers 5y ago
      >But companies like Amazon also have a responsibility to the country they operate in and in my opinion should pay taxes there. Do individuals and companies not?
    - b9a2cab5 5y ago
      If you're going to make an argument for why we should tax companies like Amazon more, you need to also make an argument for why that money wouldn't otherwise be better used by Amazon compared to the government. In my opinion anything larger than a medium sized city (think one of the many cities in SoCal) is basically guaranteed to use its funds poorly.
- hef19898 5y ago
  And Amazon most likely shared a postal address in Amsterdam with Mercedes, Siemens or BMW. Or at least the street. That shit is common practice. DO I like it? No. Does this make Amazon any less impressive? No.
  - MagnumOpus 5y ago
    > Amazon most likely shared a postal address in Amsterdam with Mercedes, Siemens or BMW. Or at least the street You are talking out of your ass and revealing your xenophobia. The Dutch Sandwich tax dodge works mostly for firms who can pretend that Caribbean post box firm own their "intellectual property" (i.e. tech and pharma firms) and who can then pretend that their actual operating entities are loss making. And no, the German car and industrial companies don't do that.
    - hef19898 5y ago
      Source in German, but German industrial giants like BASF are doping exactly that: https://www.focus.de/finanzen/steuern/fiskus-geht-leer-aus-mit-steuertricks-prellen-konzerne-staat-um-29-milliarden-doch-der-tut-nichts-dagegen_id_12995537.html https://www.focus.de/finanzen/steuern/fiskus-geht-leer-aus-m... I couldn't find a source for Siemens et all that quickly, they are doing it as well so. As is any other DAX listed company (that isn't loosing money).
tinyhouse 5y ago
True and also employ close to 1.5M employees globally who pay taxes.

barbazoo 5y ago

Let's not forget that they also use(d) actual tax avoidance schemes via Ireland, Luxembourg, etc. It's not just that they invested all their money back into their business.

ozzythecat 5y ago
Every large American company and every American business owner is involved in minimizing their tax burden. Why is it “wrong” when Amazon or any other large company does it? I took every write off I could last year to minimize my tax burden. Am I also a bad person? I can actually respect Amazon. They reinvest a huge chunk of the change into new business verticals and create new jobs. Let’s say Amazon paid another $N billion in taxes. Where would the money go? To Washington politicians who’ve been promising change and reform in education, infrastructure, healthcare - at least my entire existence on this planet of not longer. Why should we give them money? Who holds them accountable, and regardless of your politics, how well has that worked out? Americas politicians optimize for their reelection. None of them, not the career officials or the one or two term presidents, regardless of political party, have done much to optimize for the marathon. Bezos was apparently going to go bankrupt and Amazons model just wasn’t sustainable - according to the same media that cheerleads the two political parties. Yet, here we are, and the failed politicians and divisive media has no ideas other than blaming successful companies. You could take every penny of Amazon and Apples total market cap and hand it to Washington and state governments. You believe anything will change and will stop overspending every year and adding to the national debt? Who will politicians blame then? Tesla? Ha!
- barbazoo 5y ago
  You seem to be questioning taxes/government in general, I'm not gonna comment on that. Sure, individuals and companies can use the rules of the system to minimize the tax they're paying. Everyone does that. But companies like Amazon also have a responsibility to the country they operate in and in my opinion should pay taxes there. Just because some financial wizard figured out that that there is such a thing as a double dutch sandwich or what it's called doesn't mean everyone has to eat it.
  - GhettoComputers 5y ago
    >But companies like Amazon also have a responsibility to the country they operate in and in my opinion should pay taxes there. Do individuals and companies not?
  - b9a2cab5 5y ago
    If you're going to make an argument for why we should tax companies like Amazon more, you need to also make an argument for why that money wouldn't otherwise be better used by Amazon compared to the government. In my opinion anything larger than a medium sized city (think one of the many cities in SoCal) is basically guaranteed to use its funds poorly.
hef19898 5y ago
And Amazon most likely shared a postal address in Amsterdam with Mercedes, Siemens or BMW. Or at least the street. That shit is common practice. DO I like it? No. Does this make Amazon any less impressive? No.
- MagnumOpus 5y ago
  > Amazon most likely shared a postal address in Amsterdam with Mercedes, Siemens or BMW. Or at least the street You are talking out of your ass and revealing your xenophobia. The Dutch Sandwich tax dodge works mostly for firms who can pretend that Caribbean post box firm own their "intellectual property" (i.e. tech and pharma firms) and who can then pretend that their actual operating entities are loss making. And no, the German car and industrial companies don't do that.
  - hef19898 5y ago
    Source in German, but German industrial giants like BASF are doping exactly that: https://www.focus.de/finanzen/steuern/fiskus-geht-leer-aus-mit-steuertricks-prellen-konzerne-staat-um-29-milliarden-doch-der-tut-nichts-dagegen_id_12995537.html https://www.focus.de/finanzen/steuern/fiskus-geht-leer-aus-m... I couldn't find a source for Siemens et all that quickly, they are doing it as well so. As is any other DAX listed company (that isn't loosing money).

tinyhouse 5y ago

True and also employ close to 1.5M employees globally who pay taxes.