3 ms·

They are closing entire phone business, but it does not make the point about leaving unsupported devices locked-up in perpetuity moot. We seriously need to sta

They are closing entire phone business, but it does not make the point about leaving unsupported devices locked-up in perpetuity moot. We seriously need to start adding some legislation (in any sufficiently representative customer base country because mobile phones are easily transported between countries) to reduce e-waste and breathe second life into all the devices which run out of their "supported" lifecycle: if a company can't support a device anymore, it needs to allow it to be unlocked forever. I am sure all the manufacturers can set up a shared IMEI-to-unlock-code DB at a relatively small cost.

kelnos 5y ago
Why are codes even required? Just allow customers to unlock the bootloader without jumping through hoops. If a code is for some reason required, print it on a sticker in the box it comes in or something.
- necovek 5y ago
  Sure, that would be ideal. For some reason, phone manufacturers have started requiring registration to get an unlock code. So while I'd be ecstatic for us to get you-own-the-hardware-device-you-bought legislation, at this point in time, I'd be happy with your-device-needs-not-go-in-the-trash-once-we-stop-giving-you-security-updates at least. In a sense, we should push for both, but we don't have to push for both with the same initiative.
  - g_p 5y ago
    The OEMs' justification for this is to try to make it harder for greybox importers/resellers or box shifters to tamper with the firmware on phones. It's not unheard of for modified firmwares with malware to get put onto phones that are being sold into different markets. If you need to register phones one by one, it slows the process down and makes it harder to modify a large number of phones, as they can try detect and prevent bulk requests. In theory that is believed to make it less likely that a customer buys their phone and ends up with a bad experience (keylogger in the modified firmware) that they attribute to the OEM. There's obviously a self interest from OEMs to use this to also enforce market segmentation - they don't want people box shifting handsets from low margin markets into high margin markets and undercutting the official retail price. Some OEMs like Samsung have added region locks to their phones in the past because of this (which are released after 5 minutes of a call is made while connected to a mobile network from the original sales market.
    - thaumasiotes 5y ago
      > Some OEMs like Samsung have added region locks to their phones in the past because of this (which are released after 5 minutes of a call is made while connected to a mobile network from the original sales market. What's this accomplishing? If you're willing to replace the firmware, you're willing to make a local call to yourself. That's much less invasive.
      - g_p 5y ago
        It's not accomplishing a lot, but it just plays into making it harder to logistically do the grey box imports. You need multiple SIM cards going into your pile of devices, you need to have someone in the original market working with you to reliably make that call with every device. This adds friction to the process for someone trying to do it at scale. Just like how needing to register accounts to request the bootloader code can slow them down. Some OEMs even added waiting periods (you'll get your code a week or so after verifying your phone number, and they limit how many requests an account can make). The idea is that eventually it won't be worth modifying greybox devices if there's enough small barriers that annoy the person trying to unlock the device bootloader.
chana_masala 5y ago
I'm lost, what is/was their developer portal for? What would you need to unlock the bootloader for?
- bmarquez 5y ago
  Developer portal is used for unlocking the bootloader for LG phones, which would allow you to install your own custom Android software. LG has promised Android updates for 3 years after them exiting the smartphone business, but once those 3 years are up, third-party software would be the only way to get updates.
- teekert 5y ago
  They stop giving you updates, you unlock the bootloader, flash LineageOS and use the device safely and in an up to date fashion for another couple of years.
celsoazevedo 5y ago
'fastboot oem unlock' That's what any modding friendly brand supports. There's no need for codes, DBs, costs to OEMs, etc.

kelnos 5y ago

Why are codes even required? Just allow customers to unlock the bootloader without jumping through hoops. If a code is for some reason required, print it on a sticker in the box it comes in or something.

necovek 5y ago
Sure, that would be ideal. For some reason, phone manufacturers have started requiring registration to get an unlock code. So while I'd be ecstatic for us to get you-own-the-hardware-device-you-bought legislation, at this point in time, I'd be happy with your-device-needs-not-go-in-the-trash-once-we-stop-giving-you-security-updates at least. In a sense, we should push for both, but we don't have to push for both with the same initiative.
- g_p 5y ago
  The OEMs' justification for this is to try to make it harder for greybox importers/resellers or box shifters to tamper with the firmware on phones. It's not unheard of for modified firmwares with malware to get put onto phones that are being sold into different markets. If you need to register phones one by one, it slows the process down and makes it harder to modify a large number of phones, as they can try detect and prevent bulk requests. In theory that is believed to make it less likely that a customer buys their phone and ends up with a bad experience (keylogger in the modified firmware) that they attribute to the OEM. There's obviously a self interest from OEMs to use this to also enforce market segmentation - they don't want people box shifting handsets from low margin markets into high margin markets and undercutting the official retail price. Some OEMs like Samsung have added region locks to their phones in the past because of this (which are released after 5 minutes of a call is made while connected to a mobile network from the original sales market.
  - thaumasiotes 5y ago
    > Some OEMs like Samsung have added region locks to their phones in the past because of this (which are released after 5 minutes of a call is made while connected to a mobile network from the original sales market. What's this accomplishing? If you're willing to replace the firmware, you're willing to make a local call to yourself. That's much less invasive.
    - g_p 5y ago
      It's not accomplishing a lot, but it just plays into making it harder to logistically do the grey box imports. You need multiple SIM cards going into your pile of devices, you need to have someone in the original market working with you to reliably make that call with every device. This adds friction to the process for someone trying to do it at scale. Just like how needing to register accounts to request the bootloader code can slow them down. Some OEMs even added waiting periods (you'll get your code a week or so after verifying your phone number, and they limit how many requests an account can make). The idea is that eventually it won't be worth modifying greybox devices if there's enough small barriers that annoy the person trying to unlock the device bootloader.

chana_masala 5y ago

I'm lost, what is/was their developer portal for? What would you need to unlock the bootloader for?

bmarquez 5y ago
Developer portal is used for unlocking the bootloader for LG phones, which would allow you to install your own custom Android software. LG has promised Android updates for 3 years after them exiting the smartphone business, but once those 3 years are up, third-party software would be the only way to get updates.
teekert 5y ago
They stop giving you updates, you unlock the bootloader, flash LineageOS and use the device safely and in an up to date fashion for another couple of years.

celsoazevedo 5y ago

'fastboot oem unlock' That's what any modding friendly brand supports. There's no need for codes, DBs, costs to OEMs, etc.