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The comments defending crypto seem to all anchor on the argument on what crypto "can" be. Anything "can" be anything. Maybe it is what it is and it has to be s

by boh 5y ago

The comments defending crypto seem to all anchor on the argument on what crypto "can" be. Anything "can" be anything. Maybe it is what it is and it has to be something totally different to be different.

rglullis 5y ago
The "can" is not hypothetical. There are plenty of times and people who have used crypto as a way to get around dysfunctional institutions. It's just that those stories get drown-out by the ones looking for a quick way to be rich, the scammers and all the chaos that always come with any new technology.
- boh 5y ago
  Edge cases don't make much of an argument.
  - rglullis 5y ago
    They are not edge cases for the people who use it out of need.
    - boh 5y ago
      Feel free to provide details.
      - rglullis 5y ago
        Try making an international transfer to a country that does not use USD/EUR/GBP without losing more than 5% of the total value to exchange fees ("official vs parallel") and government taxes on finance operations. Brazil not until long ago had a tax of 0.38% on every bank transfer (both ways!) and they have been talking about bringing it back. Try working as a service provider with international customers, receive a payment from the client but getting notice from the bank saying it will take them 60 days to clear the money order, or that you can take it right away if they skim some of it. Try living in Venezuela and seeing the government confiscating whatever property they can if you happen to be in the opposition. Try to keep up with hyperinflation while all of those in the elites can park their cash offshore. Try to withdraw more than 600€ from your bank in Greece. Try using an international contract as proof-of-income in a bank, in case you want to get a loan for your business. Try searching for a micro-credit solution that is not going to charge you usury rates. Try running a business that is deemed "offensive" and see how you can not accept credit card payments. Not illegal. Just "offensive".
        boh 5y ago
        It's amazing that crypto has solved all of these problems, I wonder why people still have them.
        rglullis 5y ago
        It's not a problem anymore for those that are using crypto. Why is it so hard for you to accept that you don't have a valid argument? Do you think that playing dumb and taking cheap jabs at what other people do gives you any moral superiority?
        boh 5y ago
        It's because you don't care if you're actually right. The proposals you're presenting are obviously not solved nor does Bitcoin solve them. If you have a problem paying 5% transaction fees than why would use Bitcoin (not to mention every transaction is subject to tax which gov'ts haven't been aggressive at collecting now, but can choose to collect it retroactively at any point having a public ledger to reference whenever they need it).
        rglullis 5y ago
        - I don't use Bitcoin, not anymore anyway. Stop assuming that crypto = Bitcoin, or that everyone that sees the value in blockchain believes in or depends on BTC. - I am not in the US, so what you are talking about taxes make absolute zero sense. Stop assuming that everyone lives like you. - Transaction fees are fixed, so while you certainly don't want to use it (at the moment) for transfer if small value, it is certainly an advantage to use for larger sums. Also, you can use a middleman who will take obviously less than banks. But anyway, please continue telling me how the problems that I and others managed to solve or alleviate through crypto were not real.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
  - celticninja 5y ago
    They tend to be edge case for HN users. That is, male, educated, well off/affluent and living in a first world country. All the benefits of cryptocurrency are already available in their privileged position and they cannot understand that others do not have the same options/access to financial instruments.
    - rglullis 5y ago
      One trip to Argentina is all it takes for someone to get crypto.
      - boh 5y ago
        Thanks for the details. I guess we'll have to go to Argentina to learn more.
      - deleted 5y ago
        [deleted]
    - boh 5y ago
      So it's not an edge case for female, uneducated, poor people from third world countries? I guess this is the "you won't get it" defense. Maybe the real problem is that we do get it.
      - celticninja 5y ago
        Disingenuous much? That's called a strawman argument, I never made the claim yet you are making a statement as if I had said that. Either you understand my point and are being deliberately obtuse or you need to re-read my comment and go away and think about it. Either way you are not adding any value to the conversation. So please don't respond to me again.
        boh 5y ago
        I'm helping you reconsider a weak argument. You're hoping your statements are self explanatory. Also don't direct the behavior of people on a comment board. There's other places to go where you can feel good about yourself.
whiskyant 5y ago
Bitcoin already acts as a hedge against inflation, since its supply is relatively fixed (90% of all the maximum supply of Bitcoin has been mined).
- rglullis 5y ago
  Taleb would like to have a word with you. (Or probably not, he would just call you a Bitidiot for parroting this argument and block you on Twitter)
- boh 5y ago
  It's a hedge against economics in general.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]

by boh 5y ago

rglullis 5y ago

The "can" is not hypothetical. There are plenty of times and people who have used crypto as a way to get around dysfunctional institutions. It's just that those stories get drown-out by the ones looking for a quick way to be rich, the scammers and all the chaos that always come with any new technology.

boh 5y ago
Edge cases don't make much of an argument.
- rglullis 5y ago
  They are not edge cases for the people who use it out of need.
  - boh 5y ago
    Feel free to provide details.
    - rglullis 5y ago
      Try making an international transfer to a country that does not use USD/EUR/GBP without losing more than 5% of the total value to exchange fees ("official vs parallel") and government taxes on finance operations. Brazil not until long ago had a tax of 0.38% on every bank transfer (both ways!) and they have been talking about bringing it back. Try working as a service provider with international customers, receive a payment from the client but getting notice from the bank saying it will take them 60 days to clear the money order, or that you can take it right away if they skim some of it. Try living in Venezuela and seeing the government confiscating whatever property they can if you happen to be in the opposition. Try to keep up with hyperinflation while all of those in the elites can park their cash offshore. Try to withdraw more than 600€ from your bank in Greece. Try using an international contract as proof-of-income in a bank, in case you want to get a loan for your business. Try searching for a micro-credit solution that is not going to charge you usury rates. Try running a business that is deemed "offensive" and see how you can not accept credit card payments. Not illegal. Just "offensive".
      - boh 5y ago
        It's amazing that crypto has solved all of these problems, I wonder why people still have them.
        rglullis 5y ago
        It's not a problem anymore for those that are using crypto. Why is it so hard for you to accept that you don't have a valid argument? Do you think that playing dumb and taking cheap jabs at what other people do gives you any moral superiority?
        boh 5y ago
        It's because you don't care if you're actually right. The proposals you're presenting are obviously not solved nor does Bitcoin solve them. If you have a problem paying 5% transaction fees than why would use Bitcoin (not to mention every transaction is subject to tax which gov'ts haven't been aggressive at collecting now, but can choose to collect it retroactively at any point having a public ledger to reference whenever they need it).
        rglullis 5y ago
        - I don't use Bitcoin, not anymore anyway. Stop assuming that crypto = Bitcoin, or that everyone that sees the value in blockchain believes in or depends on BTC. - I am not in the US, so what you are talking about taxes make absolute zero sense. Stop assuming that everyone lives like you. - Transaction fees are fixed, so while you certainly don't want to use it (at the moment) for transfer if small value, it is certainly an advantage to use for larger sums. Also, you can use a middleman who will take obviously less than banks. But anyway, please continue telling me how the problems that I and others managed to solve or alleviate through crypto were not real.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- celticninja 5y ago
  They tend to be edge case for HN users. That is, male, educated, well off/affluent and living in a first world country. All the benefits of cryptocurrency are already available in their privileged position and they cannot understand that others do not have the same options/access to financial instruments.
  - rglullis 5y ago
    One trip to Argentina is all it takes for someone to get crypto.
    - boh 5y ago
      Thanks for the details. I guess we'll have to go to Argentina to learn more.
    - deleted 5y ago
      [deleted]
  - boh 5y ago
    So it's not an edge case for female, uneducated, poor people from third world countries? I guess this is the "you won't get it" defense. Maybe the real problem is that we do get it.
    - celticninja 5y ago
      Disingenuous much? That's called a strawman argument, I never made the claim yet you are making a statement as if I had said that. Either you understand my point and are being deliberately obtuse or you need to re-read my comment and go away and think about it. Either way you are not adding any value to the conversation. So please don't respond to me again.
      - boh 5y ago
        I'm helping you reconsider a weak argument. You're hoping your statements are self explanatory. Also don't direct the behavior of people on a comment board. There's other places to go where you can feel good about yourself.

whiskyant 5y ago

Bitcoin already acts as a hedge against inflation, since its supply is relatively fixed (90% of all the maximum supply of Bitcoin has been mined).

rglullis 5y ago
Taleb would like to have a word with you. (Or probably not, he would just call you a Bitidiot for parroting this argument and block you on Twitter)
boh 5y ago
It's a hedge against economics in general.

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]