4 ms·

You've basically stumbled upon the anti-CRT point that I've been trying to make. Race is not the hinge factor, but demanding that we make it one is a form of r

You've basically stumbled upon the anti-CRT point that I've been trying to make. Race is not the hinge factor, but demanding that we make it one is a form of racism.

beaconstudios 5y ago
No, that's not the point at all. The point is that explicitly race based policy started a self perpetuating poverty trap, and explicitly anti-racist policy is required to collectively get black people out of it. Because it's self perptuating. I'd love to know how you think racial equality will be achieved in the US though. Be warned, I am expecting the "personal responsibility" argument and am more than ready to debunk it.
- dude187 5y ago
  > No, that's not the point at all. It absolutely is. > explicitly anti-racist policy is required to collectively get black people out of it. That's racist. There's White people caught in that same trap. Ignoring them doesn't help anybody, it just codifies racism. > I'd love to know how you think racial equality will be achieved in the US though. Personal responsibility is an insufficient summary, but definitely a main thread of what the community needs to do.
  - beaconstudios 5y ago
    There are white people caught in the same trap, yes, and I think they should be helped too. But that's "socialism" in the US. The difference between those cases is that black people were placed into a poverty trap as a result of explicitly racist government policy, and are owed reparations to make amends; yknow, restorative justice and all that. > Personal responsibility is an insufficient summary, but definitely a main thread of what the community needs to do. I'd love to know how they're supposed to solve their own poverty, I've no doubt you have a comprehensive plan designed to systematically alleviate such a challenging and destructive social condition.
    - dude187 5y ago
      Yeah of course, it ends in "pay reparations"!!!11! Reparations are evil. The welfare state is a big part of what keeps people down.
      - beaconstudios 5y ago
        You know reparations don't have to come in the form of cash payments, right? Like investing in infrastructure, entrepreneur funds, institutional investments etc. The welfare state is the only thing keeping some people from starving to death. I know you libertarian types are OK with that though, as long as you don't have to watch people die.
        dude187 5y ago
        Directing government funds by race is racist. An extreme evil abhorrent idea.
    - packetlost 5y ago
      Just jumping in here, but Native American's also have nearly all of the same issues + more and you don't really see anyone advocating for reparations for them. I encourage you to look up poverty rates, alcoholism and drug use rates, premature deaths, etc. by racial groups from the US Census Bureau. To be clear, I'm not advocating reparations for Natives too, I'm saying poverty and behavior are self-perpetuating cycles that lead to worse outcomes for future generations regardless of race. Source: am American tribal member
      - beaconstudios 5y ago
        > Native American's also have nearly all of the same issues + more and you don't really see anyone advocating for reparations for them. You actually do, it's called the "land back" movement. The idea is the same in both cases, which is to say restorative justice. Reparations for black people is to compensate for the non payment of labour under slavery and land back is to compensate for stolen land from native people. Poverty traps are generally evil, true, and I think that UBI or something like that is a good way to address ahistoric poverty - but poverty rooted in historic actions by the American government should be addressed too, because black and native people today are still suffering from the repercussions of those actions. Germany addressed its actions in ww2 with reparations and concessions, it's a pretty typically American thing to not want to right America's historic wrongs.

You've basically stumbled upon the anti-CRT point that I've been trying to make. Race is not the hinge factor, but demanding that we make it one is a form of racism.

beaconstudios 5y ago

No, that's not the point at all. The point is that explicitly race based policy started a self perpetuating poverty trap, and explicitly anti-racist policy is required to collectively get black people out of it. Because it's self perptuating. I'd love to know how you think racial equality will be achieved in the US though. Be warned, I am expecting the "personal responsibility" argument and am more than ready to debunk it.

dude187 5y ago
> No, that's not the point at all. It absolutely is. > explicitly anti-racist policy is required to collectively get black people out of it. That's racist. There's White people caught in that same trap. Ignoring them doesn't help anybody, it just codifies racism. > I'd love to know how you think racial equality will be achieved in the US though. Personal responsibility is an insufficient summary, but definitely a main thread of what the community needs to do.
- beaconstudios 5y ago
  There are white people caught in the same trap, yes, and I think they should be helped too. But that's "socialism" in the US. The difference between those cases is that black people were placed into a poverty trap as a result of explicitly racist government policy, and are owed reparations to make amends; yknow, restorative justice and all that. > Personal responsibility is an insufficient summary, but definitely a main thread of what the community needs to do. I'd love to know how they're supposed to solve their own poverty, I've no doubt you have a comprehensive plan designed to systematically alleviate such a challenging and destructive social condition.
  - dude187 5y ago
    Yeah of course, it ends in "pay reparations"!!!11! Reparations are evil. The welfare state is a big part of what keeps people down.
    - beaconstudios 5y ago
      You know reparations don't have to come in the form of cash payments, right? Like investing in infrastructure, entrepreneur funds, institutional investments etc. The welfare state is the only thing keeping some people from starving to death. I know you libertarian types are OK with that though, as long as you don't have to watch people die.
      - dude187 5y ago
        Directing government funds by race is racist. An extreme evil abhorrent idea.
  - packetlost 5y ago
    Just jumping in here, but Native American's also have nearly all of the same issues + more and you don't really see anyone advocating for reparations for them. I encourage you to look up poverty rates, alcoholism and drug use rates, premature deaths, etc. by racial groups from the US Census Bureau. To be clear, I'm not advocating reparations for Natives too, I'm saying poverty and behavior are self-perpetuating cycles that lead to worse outcomes for future generations regardless of race. Source: am American tribal member
    - beaconstudios 5y ago
      > Native American's also have nearly all of the same issues + more and you don't really see anyone advocating for reparations for them. You actually do, it's called the "land back" movement. The idea is the same in both cases, which is to say restorative justice. Reparations for black people is to compensate for the non payment of labour under slavery and land back is to compensate for stolen land from native people. Poverty traps are generally evil, true, and I think that UBI or something like that is a good way to address ahistoric poverty - but poverty rooted in historic actions by the American government should be addressed too, because black and native people today are still suffering from the repercussions of those actions. Germany addressed its actions in ww2 with reparations and concessions, it's a pretty typically American thing to not want to right America's historic wrongs.