4 ms·

> The problem in the USA is that black people started out as slaves and this massive social oppression was never balanced out That's not due to lack of opportu

> The problem in the USA is that black people started out as slaves and this massive social oppression was never balanced out That's not due to lack of opportunity, despite what the race peddlers insist is the only possibility. Plenty of discriminated immigrant groups have surpassed your average White household wealth in a matter of a couple generations. The problem is largely behavioral, but any discussions of the topic are typically controlled by people that don't let that be an acceptable angle to look at.

beaconstudios 5y ago
OK then, let's look at that. If you're an ambitious person and your entire neighbourhood and everyone you've ever known is poverty-stricken, there are no jobs in your area, and the only thing akin to a route out of poverty is the drug trade, what are you gonna do? Even if you don't want to be involved, gangs may forcibly recruit you at a young age. The problem perpetuates itself as gangs mean no new business will move into the area for fear of being robbed or extorted. Immigrants moving from other countries are not necessarily stuck in the mindset that comes from poverty and crime. This isn't a uniquely racial thing either; here in the UK we have a near identical problem (minus gun violence) with young poor majority-white men, called chavs. Poverty and lack of opportunity drives crime, and crime tends to perpetuate the same problems that caused it. Thus, the systems-theory aspect of critical theory, which is the complex part I was talking about previously.
- dude187 5y ago
  You've basically stumbled upon the anti-CRT point that I've been trying to make. Race is not the hinge factor, but demanding that we make it one is a form of racism.
  - beaconstudios 5y ago
    No, that's not the point at all. The point is that explicitly race based policy started a self perpetuating poverty trap, and explicitly anti-racist policy is required to collectively get black people out of it. Because it's self perptuating. I'd love to know how you think racial equality will be achieved in the US though. Be warned, I am expecting the "personal responsibility" argument and am more than ready to debunk it.
    - dude187 5y ago
      > No, that's not the point at all. It absolutely is. > explicitly anti-racist policy is required to collectively get black people out of it. That's racist. There's White people caught in that same trap. Ignoring them doesn't help anybody, it just codifies racism. > I'd love to know how you think racial equality will be achieved in the US though. Personal responsibility is an insufficient summary, but definitely a main thread of what the community needs to do.
      - beaconstudios 5y ago
        There are white people caught in the same trap, yes, and I think they should be helped too. But that's "socialism" in the US. The difference between those cases is that black people were placed into a poverty trap as a result of explicitly racist government policy, and are owed reparations to make amends; yknow, restorative justice and all that. > Personal responsibility is an insufficient summary, but definitely a main thread of what the community needs to do. I'd love to know how they're supposed to solve their own poverty, I've no doubt you have a comprehensive plan designed to systematically alleviate such a challenging and destructive social condition.
        dude187 5y ago
        Yeah of course, it ends in "pay reparations"!!!11! Reparations are evil. The welfare state is a big part of what keeps people down.
        beaconstudios 5y ago
        You know reparations don't have to come in the form of cash payments, right? Like investing in infrastructure, entrepreneur funds, institutional investments etc. The welfare state is the only thing keeping some people from starving to death. I know you libertarian types are OK with that though, as long as you don't have to watch people die.
        5y ago

beaconstudios 5y ago

OK then, let's look at that. If you're an ambitious person and your entire neighbourhood and everyone you've ever known is poverty-stricken, there are no jobs in your area, and the only thing akin to a route out of poverty is the drug trade, what are you gonna do? Even if you don't want to be involved, gangs may forcibly recruit you at a young age. The problem perpetuates itself as gangs mean no new business will move into the area for fear of being robbed or extorted. Immigrants moving from other countries are not necessarily stuck in the mindset that comes from poverty and crime. This isn't a uniquely racial thing either; here in the UK we have a near identical problem (minus gun violence) with young poor majority-white men, called chavs. Poverty and lack of opportunity drives crime, and crime tends to perpetuate the same problems that caused it. Thus, the systems-theory aspect of critical theory, which is the complex part I was talking about previously.

dude187 5y ago
You've basically stumbled upon the anti-CRT point that I've been trying to make. Race is not the hinge factor, but demanding that we make it one is a form of racism.
- beaconstudios 5y ago
  No, that's not the point at all. The point is that explicitly race based policy started a self perpetuating poverty trap, and explicitly anti-racist policy is required to collectively get black people out of it. Because it's self perptuating. I'd love to know how you think racial equality will be achieved in the US though. Be warned, I am expecting the "personal responsibility" argument and am more than ready to debunk it.
  - dude187 5y ago
    > No, that's not the point at all. It absolutely is. > explicitly anti-racist policy is required to collectively get black people out of it. That's racist. There's White people caught in that same trap. Ignoring them doesn't help anybody, it just codifies racism. > I'd love to know how you think racial equality will be achieved in the US though. Personal responsibility is an insufficient summary, but definitely a main thread of what the community needs to do.
    - beaconstudios 5y ago
      There are white people caught in the same trap, yes, and I think they should be helped too. But that's "socialism" in the US. The difference between those cases is that black people were placed into a poverty trap as a result of explicitly racist government policy, and are owed reparations to make amends; yknow, restorative justice and all that. > Personal responsibility is an insufficient summary, but definitely a main thread of what the community needs to do. I'd love to know how they're supposed to solve their own poverty, I've no doubt you have a comprehensive plan designed to systematically alleviate such a challenging and destructive social condition.
      - dude187 5y ago
        Yeah of course, it ends in "pay reparations"!!!11! Reparations are evil. The welfare state is a big part of what keeps people down.
        beaconstudios 5y ago
        You know reparations don't have to come in the form of cash payments, right? Like investing in infrastructure, entrepreneur funds, institutional investments etc. The welfare state is the only thing keeping some people from starving to death. I know you libertarian types are OK with that though, as long as you don't have to watch people die.
        5y ago