4 ms·

Ayahuasca

15 points by maremmano 5y ago

vmoore 5y ago
> B. caapi contains several alkaloids that act as MAOIs, which are required for DMT to be orally active What boggles my mind is how shamans found a way to make it orally active. They would have to experiment heavily with various plants, sometimes to their own detriment. This would entail consuming poisonous plants by accident all so they can find a psychoactive brew.
- mmm1337 5y ago
  How far fetched is the argument that the plants have told these shamans what to do in their dreams? Everyone I know who did ayahuasca knows for certain that these things happen.
  - 5e92cb50239222b 5y ago
    >How far fetched Very. I haven't done DMT but have talked extensively to people who have (and whom I know very well). It seems to produce such vivid and realistic hallucinations that it's not hard to believe that it happened for real. I'll leave this here for anyone interested. https://www.erowid.org/experiences/subs/exp_Ayahuasca.shtml https://www.erowid.org/experiences/subs/exp_Ayahuasca.shtml https://www.erowid.org/experiences/subs/exp_DMT.shtml https://www.erowid.org/experiences/subs/exp_DMT.shtml
- 5e92cb50239222b 5y ago
  Probably the same way that curare was made — by throwing everything and the kitchen sink together and seeing if it works. Curare has what, 90% of ballast that does absolutely nothing? Or maybe a random hungry hunter-gatherer ate a few things that looked edible and had a "religious experience". What I'm saying is it shouldn't take much to combine the necessary ingredients without any help from "God". It's nothing compared to modern chemical synthesis with 50-100+ steps which you absolutely cannot invent without years of painful deliberate research.
- filoeleven 5y ago
  We know that ayahuasca is brewed in countless variations: each shaman has their own traditional recipe tweaks/amounts, so we know that experimentation happened and is likely ongoing. The effects of taking an MAOI include “ depression symptoms, such as lethargy, fatigue, unexplained sadness, guilt, and other physical symptoms,” and if those effects can happen after a single dose it’s not too far-fetched to think that B. caapi could have been used as part of a pre-existing ordeal ritual. Then one day someone brewed it up with the DMT-containing plant (or ramped up the dosage high enough after feeling some strange effects at lower doses) and got the surprise of a lifetime. Finding and consuming toxins was done intentionally in many societies as a rite of passage. The bullet ant ordeal is a well-known version of this. So it’s possible that the psychedelic brew was in fact the accident!
LinuxBender 5y ago
Here [1] is an interview between Joe Rogan and Ron White on Ron's experience with Ayahuasca. I enjoyed the interview and the YT comments aren't too bad either. I'm not sure I'd ever be brave enough to try this stuff. Not sure what it would do to my already hyper-active autonomic nervous system. [1] - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lvb9X_3P5v4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lvb9X_3P5v4
Projectiboga 5y ago
An interesting side story is the Highland Shaman in Nepal eat a similar combination of chemicals from completely different plants. Both groups of shaman, Nepal and south America have similar descriptions of the formation and structure of the universe. The maoi chemical harmaline, is taken over a wide area of Africa, south eastern europe, and much of central asia, as well as south america. It has broad antibacterial properties and is strong against parasites.
mcbishop 5y ago
I did Ayahuasca once. This sounds cliche, but I don't think I've ever felt so strongly connected to the natural world. I'd like to do it again.

15 points by maremmano 5y ago

> B. caapi contains several alkaloids that act as MAOIs, which are required for DMT to be orally active What boggles my mind is how shamans found a way to make it orally active. They would have to experiment heavily with various plants, sometimes to their own detriment. This would entail consuming poisonous plants by accident all so they can find a psychoactive brew.

mmm1337 5y ago
How far fetched is the argument that the plants have told these shamans what to do in their dreams? Everyone I know who did ayahuasca knows for certain that these things happen.
- 5e92cb50239222b 5y ago
  >How far fetched Very. I haven't done DMT but have talked extensively to people who have (and whom I know very well). It seems to produce such vivid and realistic hallucinations that it's not hard to believe that it happened for real. I'll leave this here for anyone interested. https://www.erowid.org/experiences/subs/exp_Ayahuasca.shtml https://www.erowid.org/experiences/subs/exp_Ayahuasca.shtml https://www.erowid.org/experiences/subs/exp_DMT.shtml https://www.erowid.org/experiences/subs/exp_DMT.shtml
5e92cb50239222b 5y ago
Probably the same way that curare was made — by throwing everything and the kitchen sink together and seeing if it works. Curare has what, 90% of ballast that does absolutely nothing? Or maybe a random hungry hunter-gatherer ate a few things that looked edible and had a "religious experience". What I'm saying is it shouldn't take much to combine the necessary ingredients without any help from "God". It's nothing compared to modern chemical synthesis with 50-100+ steps which you absolutely cannot invent without years of painful deliberate research.
filoeleven 5y ago
We know that ayahuasca is brewed in countless variations: each shaman has their own traditional recipe tweaks/amounts, so we know that experimentation happened and is likely ongoing. The effects of taking an MAOI include “ depression symptoms, such as lethargy, fatigue, unexplained sadness, guilt, and other physical symptoms,” and if those effects can happen after a single dose it’s not too far-fetched to think that B. caapi could have been used as part of a pre-existing ordeal ritual. Then one day someone brewed it up with the DMT-containing plant (or ramped up the dosage high enough after feeling some strange effects at lower doses) and got the surprise of a lifetime. Finding and consuming toxins was done intentionally in many societies as a rite of passage. The bullet ant ordeal is a well-known version of this. So it’s possible that the psychedelic brew was in fact the accident!

LinuxBender 5y ago

Here [1] is an interview between Joe Rogan and Ron White on Ron's experience with Ayahuasca. I enjoyed the interview and the YT comments aren't too bad either. I'm not sure I'd ever be brave enough to try this stuff. Not sure what it would do to my already hyper-active autonomic nervous system. [1] - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lvb9X_3P5v4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lvb9X_3P5v4

Projectiboga 5y ago

An interesting side story is the Highland Shaman in Nepal eat a similar combination of chemicals from completely different plants. Both groups of shaman, Nepal and south America have similar descriptions of the formation and structure of the universe. The maoi chemical harmaline, is taken over a wide area of Africa, south eastern europe, and much of central asia, as well as south america. It has broad antibacterial properties and is strong against parasites.

mcbishop 5y ago

I did Ayahuasca once. This sounds cliche, but I don't think I've ever felt so strongly connected to the natural world. I'd like to do it again.