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> And yet, “Mycenaean” translates roughly to the mushroom people… This has got to be my top-contender for wackiest HN comment if the week. Please: could you s

> And yet, “Mycenaean” translates roughly to the mushroom people… This has got to be my top-contender for wackiest HN comment if the week. Please: could you show any sources for this assertion? Start with the sctual Greek; because, the actual Greek words are about as related as "moose" and "mouse".

bigbillheck 5y ago
Most of that comment is kind of goofy but the etymology isn't absurd. Per https://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/text?doc=Paus.+2.16.3&fromdoc=Perseus%3Atext%3A1999.01.0160 https://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/text?doc=Paus.+2.16.3&f... : So the prediction of the god to Acrisius found its fulfillment, nor was his fate prevented by his precautions against his daughter and grandson. Perseus, ashamed because of the gossip about the homicide, on his return to Argos induced Megapenthes, the son of Proetus, to make an exchange of kingdoms; taking over himself that of Megapenthes, he founded Mycenae. For on its site the cap （myces） fell from his scabbard, and he regarded this as a sign to found a city. I have also heard the following account. He was thirsty, and the thought occurred to him to pick up a mushroom （myces） from the ground. Drinking with joy water that flowed from it, he gave to the place the name of Mycenae.
- andybak 5y ago
  It's actually in the etymology section on Wikipedia too: > Legend has it that the name was connected to the Greek word mykēs (μύκης, "mushroom"). Thus, Pausanias ascribes the name to the legendary founder Perseus, who was said to have named it either after the cap (mykēs) of the sheath of his sword, or after a mushroom he had plucked on the site. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mycenae https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mycenae Even if that's true then it is still a leap from "People from Mushroom City" to "Mushroom People"
  - kgeist 5y ago
    Could as well be folk etymology. "Mykes" has stem myket- (*mykets > mykes, genetive "myketos") The -t- isn't found in "Mykenai" There was also "mykon" meaning "I mooed", and if you have enough fantasy you can link it to Minotaurus, for example.
    - buildsjets 5y ago
      The worldwide distribution of Psilocybe Cubensis hallucinogenic mushrooms are strongly correlated to the domestication and worldwide spread of cattle. And the Minoans certainly involved cattle/bulls as a part of their worship practices.
      - dr_dshiv 5y ago
        That is very compelling. And yet, no textual or visual evidence of deliberate psilocybin mushroom use in Europe until 1957. It’s the strangest thing.
        YeGoblynQueenne 5y ago
        Why is it strange?
        dr_dshiv 5y ago
        Strange because there were psychedelic mushrooms growing all over Europe for thousands of years and undiscovered till the late 50s. Therefore, we have to believe that 1. Nobody ever tried them or 2. people tried them but didn’t like them, 3. They were liked at some point but were later forgotten or suppressed. There is the story of Thracian wine that required dilution with water of 20 parts to 1 — and in Roman times,still required dilution of 8 to 1. Since you can’t make wine that strong, maybe it’s another case for mushrooms. But, tantalizing though it may be, it’s not evidence.
        YeGoblynQueenne 5y ago
        I don't think it's strange. There's datura growing all over the countryside where I live and magic mushrooms too, probably (although I wouldn't recognise them). I don't go plucking and using it. Neither do most people I know. Why is that strange? Can you say where you have heard about the Thracian wine thing? I know the ancients diluted their wine (not just Thracian wine, also Rhodian wine which was something like French wines today, the top of the tops), but they also added all sort of taste enhancers to it.
- dr_dshiv 5y ago
  > He was thirsty, and the thought occurred to him to pick up a mushroom （myces） from the ground. Drinking with joy water that flowed from it, he gave to the place the name of Mycenae. This is fabulous, thank you. Very compelling. There are giant Neolithic carvings of mushrooms in Thrace. But apart from these small scatterings of ambiguous evidence—almost nothing supports the idea that psychoactive mushrooms were known to the Greeks. Which is just, well, odd. https://www.ancient-origins.net/history-ancient-traditions/mushroom-monuments-thrace-and-ancient-sacred-rites-005267 https://www.ancient-origins.net/history-ancient-traditions/m...
  - buildsjets 5y ago
    I’m sure you must know of Kykeon, the psychoactive beverage that ancient Greeks drank as part of the initiation into the Eleusinian Mysteries. Psychedelic mushrooms are one of the theorized ingredients, but as you say there is no hard evidence of that. However, residue of ergot fungus sclerotia has been found in Kykeon vessels. Another strong candidate is datura (Jimsonweed), based on it’s regional availability and description of the effects of Kykeon.
- thechao 5y ago
  Fabulous!
dr_dshiv 5y ago
I hope you are satisfied by the sources provided and your mind is sufficiently blown. Isn’t it nice to reset one’s standards for what sounds like unhinged craziness? This is my favorite kind of knowledge to collect.

bigbillheck 5y ago

Most of that comment is kind of goofy but the etymology isn't absurd. Per https://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/text?doc=Paus.+2.16.3&fromdoc=Perseus%3Atext%3A1999.01.0160 https://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/text?doc=Paus.+2.16.3&f... : So the prediction of the god to Acrisius found its fulfillment, nor was his fate prevented by his precautions against his daughter and grandson. Perseus, ashamed because of the gossip about the homicide, on his return to Argos induced Megapenthes, the son of Proetus, to make an exchange of kingdoms; taking over himself that of Megapenthes, he founded Mycenae. For on its site the cap （myces） fell from his scabbard, and he regarded this as a sign to found a city. I have also heard the following account. He was thirsty, and the thought occurred to him to pick up a mushroom （myces） from the ground. Drinking with joy water that flowed from it, he gave to the place the name of Mycenae.

andybak 5y ago
It's actually in the etymology section on Wikipedia too: > Legend has it that the name was connected to the Greek word mykēs (μύκης, "mushroom"). Thus, Pausanias ascribes the name to the legendary founder Perseus, who was said to have named it either after the cap (mykēs) of the sheath of his sword, or after a mushroom he had plucked on the site. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mycenae https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mycenae Even if that's true then it is still a leap from "People from Mushroom City" to "Mushroom People"
- kgeist 5y ago
  Could as well be folk etymology. "Mykes" has stem myket- (*mykets > mykes, genetive "myketos") The -t- isn't found in "Mykenai" There was also "mykon" meaning "I mooed", and if you have enough fantasy you can link it to Minotaurus, for example.
  - buildsjets 5y ago
    The worldwide distribution of Psilocybe Cubensis hallucinogenic mushrooms are strongly correlated to the domestication and worldwide spread of cattle. And the Minoans certainly involved cattle/bulls as a part of their worship practices.
    - dr_dshiv 5y ago
      That is very compelling. And yet, no textual or visual evidence of deliberate psilocybin mushroom use in Europe until 1957. It’s the strangest thing.
      - YeGoblynQueenne 5y ago
        Why is it strange?
        dr_dshiv 5y ago
        Strange because there were psychedelic mushrooms growing all over Europe for thousands of years and undiscovered till the late 50s. Therefore, we have to believe that 1. Nobody ever tried them or 2. people tried them but didn’t like them, 3. They were liked at some point but were later forgotten or suppressed. There is the story of Thracian wine that required dilution with water of 20 parts to 1 — and in Roman times,still required dilution of 8 to 1. Since you can’t make wine that strong, maybe it’s another case for mushrooms. But, tantalizing though it may be, it’s not evidence.
        YeGoblynQueenne 5y ago
        I don't think it's strange. There's datura growing all over the countryside where I live and magic mushrooms too, probably (although I wouldn't recognise them). I don't go plucking and using it. Neither do most people I know. Why is that strange? Can you say where you have heard about the Thracian wine thing? I know the ancients diluted their wine (not just Thracian wine, also Rhodian wine which was something like French wines today, the top of the tops), but they also added all sort of taste enhancers to it.
dr_dshiv 5y ago
> He was thirsty, and the thought occurred to him to pick up a mushroom （myces） from the ground. Drinking with joy water that flowed from it, he gave to the place the name of Mycenae. This is fabulous, thank you. Very compelling. There are giant Neolithic carvings of mushrooms in Thrace. But apart from these small scatterings of ambiguous evidence—almost nothing supports the idea that psychoactive mushrooms were known to the Greeks. Which is just, well, odd. https://www.ancient-origins.net/history-ancient-traditions/mushroom-monuments-thrace-and-ancient-sacred-rites-005267 https://www.ancient-origins.net/history-ancient-traditions/m...
- buildsjets 5y ago
  I’m sure you must know of Kykeon, the psychoactive beverage that ancient Greeks drank as part of the initiation into the Eleusinian Mysteries. Psychedelic mushrooms are one of the theorized ingredients, but as you say there is no hard evidence of that. However, residue of ergot fungus sclerotia has been found in Kykeon vessels. Another strong candidate is datura (Jimsonweed), based on it’s regional availability and description of the effects of Kykeon.
thechao 5y ago
Fabulous!

dr_dshiv 5y ago

I hope you are satisfied by the sources provided and your mind is sufficiently blown. Isn’t it nice to reset one’s standards for what sounds like unhinged craziness? This is my favorite kind of knowledge to collect.