5 ms·

I prefer to call it the Lottery factor. How many people have to win the lottery and retire for a project not to have a maintainer? It's a little more positive :

I prefer to call it the Lottery factor. How many people have to win the lottery and retire for a project not to have a maintainer? It's a little more positive :)

s_severus 5y ago
(author here) That's a nice twist on the idea! You got me wondering whether a lottery win would change my plans. I love working on Vendure, I consider myself extremely lucky to be able to do so full time.
- ChrisMarshallNY 5y ago
  I have “retired” (but not out of choice -no one wants to hire us “olds” -I stopped looking at 56). These days, I work harder than ever, for far better quality product, than I ever did, when a corporate drone. I don’t make a dime; but it’s never been about the money, for me. I really love designing and shipping product. There’s a special joy that comes from architecting and finally delivering a complete software project. I consider it a craft, and take great pride in my craftsmanship. Personally, I think it’s absolutely insane for corporations to deliberately ignore and insult folks like me. I was quite upset, when I first ran into it, but, upon reflection, I have to admit that it was probably the best thing that ever happened to me. If my hand had not been forced, I would have kept on working, making other people money, and never having the joy that I experience, every day. Definitely worth it. Would buy again.
  - jacquesm 5y ago
    > but it’s never been about the money That is such a fantastic luxury position to be in.
    - ChrisMarshallNY 5y ago
      Definitely. I worked hard to get here. Saved 25-40% of my money, while working. Lived real "low on the hog." It's "f**k you money." I just thought that the idea was for me to say "f**k you" to employers; not the other way 'round (which is what happened).
      - agustif 5y ago
        Well ageism is a bitch in our sector, but you certainly have to have in mind that maybe for the same reason past-entrepreneurs are frowned upon, if they know you don't need the money, they know they can't force you to do stuff you don't want... It's a bit like when they want to know if you've family/responsabilities, I doubt it is to pay you a salary going with those, but more to gauge if you'll be a good slave or not... Anyways, if I was in your position, I would do whatever I want, but without working for a company anyways, is not fuck you money (or attitude) at leaat, if you still have to obey the boss on all the bullshit right? Best of luck! PS: Oh now I saw your username, I've read you a lot arund here Chris, I think you're doing great with your own libraries/iOS stuff, I don't see why you might need to apply to a company, maybe you should start yours instead. You would make a good leader
        ChrisMarshallNY 5y ago
        Thanks! I was a manager for many years (you can see many testimonials on my LinkedIN page). I just hated the job, although the consensus seemed to be that I was pretty good at it. I do have a couple of companies, but they are more so I can access resources that are not available to individuals. I am currently working with a small 501(c)(3) (US nonprofit). It is a team, but there's only a couple of us tecchies, and I do most of the coding.
  - jes 5y ago
    > I was quite upset, when I first ran into it, but, upon reflection, I have to admit that it was probably the best thing that ever happened to me. At 62, I can relate. I think you might enjoy this short parable, as told by Alan Watts: https://youtu.be/byQrdnq7_H0 https://youtu.be/byQrdnq7_H0
    - ChrisMarshallNY 5y ago
      I loved that! Thanks so much!
      - jes 5y ago
        You are most welcome.
      - jodrellblank 5y ago
        I don't know if you would enjoy it, but keying off the idea of lifetime crafstmanship is the documentary film Jiro Dreams of Sushi[1], he was 85 at the time and ran a small but world famous sushi restaurant - no chain of stores, no growth at all costs, instead pursuit of excellence. Quotes: > Jiro Ono: Once you decide on your occupation... you must immerse yourself in your work. You have to fall in love with your work. Never complain about your job. You must dedicate your life to mastering your skill. That's the secret of success... and is the key to being regarded honorably. and > Jiro Ono: I do the same thing over and over, improving bit by bit. There is always a yearning to achieve more. I'll continue to climb, trying to reach the top, but no one knows where the top is. [1] https://www.imdb.com/title/tt1772925/ https://www.imdb.com/title/tt1772925/ [2] https://www.imdb.com/title/tt1772925/quotes/?ref_=tt_trv_qu https://www.imdb.com/title/tt1772925/quotes/?ref_=tt_trv_qu
        lowercased 5y ago
        > I do the same thing over and over, improving bit by bit. There is always a yearning to achieve more Does he manage every aspect of his restaurant chain? Does he install all the plumbing and electrics? Does he wash all the dishes? In 'software', it seems the 'skill' you're supposed to 'master' is always learning more of everything all the time. I can not be a master of everything. I can not keep up with docker/k8s/security/design/css/UI/accessibility/i18n while continuing to 'achieve more' with SQL, server-side development, documentation, testing and more. There are physical limits (x hours in a day, ability to focus and concentrate, and new 'things' constantly coming out). I say this because as 'good' as I may be in the 'latest' in, say, 4 areas of development... I'm going to be judged harshly by certain groups of folks (team/hiring folks) because, for example, I may still be using bootstrap 5, or angular instead of react, or whatnot, regardless of if that's my focus or not. I've fallen in love with some of my work, but there's a limit to how much I can do, and a limit to how much I can actually love. Some I just tolerate.
seanwilson 5y ago
Ha, I'd be open to better names like this. I've seen someone talk to a client before about what a bus factor was when explaining why we were putting together a handover document and you could see the client visibly wince whenever "hit by a bus" was said. I usually go with "if one of us is on holiday".
- asddubs 5y ago
  ha, he must've had a pretty visual imagination
- detaro 5y ago
  On the other hand, the "bus" scenario makes it very clear that it's the worst case that's a) not planned, b) no, you can't just call them anyways, even if its really really important and c) not something you can wait out until they return.
- Viliam1234 5y ago
  > I usually go with "if one of us is on holiday". I would expect this to get responses like "you need to take your phone with you on your holidays" or "you should plan your holidays so that they don't happen at the time when the application is most needed". In my experience, having the bus factor of one was not a problem for the company, it was a problem for me, because I needed to do a lot of negotiation about when to take my holidays. (After a few years I gave them the notice, and then it suddenly became a problem for the company.)

I prefer to call it the Lottery factor. How many people have to win the lottery and retire for a project not to have a maintainer? It's a little more positive :)

s_severus 5y ago

(author here) That's a nice twist on the idea! You got me wondering whether a lottery win would change my plans. I love working on Vendure, I consider myself extremely lucky to be able to do so full time.

ChrisMarshallNY 5y ago
I have “retired” (but not out of choice -no one wants to hire us “olds” -I stopped looking at 56). These days, I work harder than ever, for far better quality product, than I ever did, when a corporate drone. I don’t make a dime; but it’s never been about the money, for me. I really love designing and shipping product. There’s a special joy that comes from architecting and finally delivering a complete software project. I consider it a craft, and take great pride in my craftsmanship. Personally, I think it’s absolutely insane for corporations to deliberately ignore and insult folks like me. I was quite upset, when I first ran into it, but, upon reflection, I have to admit that it was probably the best thing that ever happened to me. If my hand had not been forced, I would have kept on working, making other people money, and never having the joy that I experience, every day. Definitely worth it. Would buy again.
- jacquesm 5y ago
  > but it’s never been about the money That is such a fantastic luxury position to be in.
  - ChrisMarshallNY 5y ago
    Definitely. I worked hard to get here. Saved 25-40% of my money, while working. Lived real "low on the hog." It's "f**k you money." I just thought that the idea was for me to say "f**k you" to employers; not the other way 'round (which is what happened).
    - agustif 5y ago
      Well ageism is a bitch in our sector, but you certainly have to have in mind that maybe for the same reason past-entrepreneurs are frowned upon, if they know you don't need the money, they know they can't force you to do stuff you don't want... It's a bit like when they want to know if you've family/responsabilities, I doubt it is to pay you a salary going with those, but more to gauge if you'll be a good slave or not... Anyways, if I was in your position, I would do whatever I want, but without working for a company anyways, is not fuck you money (or attitude) at leaat, if you still have to obey the boss on all the bullshit right? Best of luck! PS: Oh now I saw your username, I've read you a lot arund here Chris, I think you're doing great with your own libraries/iOS stuff, I don't see why you might need to apply to a company, maybe you should start yours instead. You would make a good leader
      - ChrisMarshallNY 5y ago
        Thanks! I was a manager for many years (you can see many testimonials on my LinkedIN page). I just hated the job, although the consensus seemed to be that I was pretty good at it. I do have a couple of companies, but they are more so I can access resources that are not available to individuals. I am currently working with a small 501(c)(3) (US nonprofit). It is a team, but there's only a couple of us tecchies, and I do most of the coding.
- jes 5y ago
  > I was quite upset, when I first ran into it, but, upon reflection, I have to admit that it was probably the best thing that ever happened to me. At 62, I can relate. I think you might enjoy this short parable, as told by Alan Watts: https://youtu.be/byQrdnq7_H0 https://youtu.be/byQrdnq7_H0
  - ChrisMarshallNY 5y ago
    I loved that! Thanks so much!
    - jes 5y ago
      You are most welcome.
    - jodrellblank 5y ago
      I don't know if you would enjoy it, but keying off the idea of lifetime crafstmanship is the documentary film Jiro Dreams of Sushi[1], he was 85 at the time and ran a small but world famous sushi restaurant - no chain of stores, no growth at all costs, instead pursuit of excellence. Quotes: > Jiro Ono: Once you decide on your occupation... you must immerse yourself in your work. You have to fall in love with your work. Never complain about your job. You must dedicate your life to mastering your skill. That's the secret of success... and is the key to being regarded honorably. and > Jiro Ono: I do the same thing over and over, improving bit by bit. There is always a yearning to achieve more. I'll continue to climb, trying to reach the top, but no one knows where the top is. [1] https://www.imdb.com/title/tt1772925/ https://www.imdb.com/title/tt1772925/ [2] https://www.imdb.com/title/tt1772925/quotes/?ref_=tt_trv_qu https://www.imdb.com/title/tt1772925/quotes/?ref_=tt_trv_qu
      - lowercased 5y ago
        > I do the same thing over and over, improving bit by bit. There is always a yearning to achieve more Does he manage every aspect of his restaurant chain? Does he install all the plumbing and electrics? Does he wash all the dishes? In 'software', it seems the 'skill' you're supposed to 'master' is always learning more of everything all the time. I can not be a master of everything. I can not keep up with docker/k8s/security/design/css/UI/accessibility/i18n while continuing to 'achieve more' with SQL, server-side development, documentation, testing and more. There are physical limits (x hours in a day, ability to focus and concentrate, and new 'things' constantly coming out). I say this because as 'good' as I may be in the 'latest' in, say, 4 areas of development... I'm going to be judged harshly by certain groups of folks (team/hiring folks) because, for example, I may still be using bootstrap 5, or angular instead of react, or whatnot, regardless of if that's my focus or not. I've fallen in love with some of my work, but there's a limit to how much I can do, and a limit to how much I can actually love. Some I just tolerate.

seanwilson 5y ago

Ha, I'd be open to better names like this. I've seen someone talk to a client before about what a bus factor was when explaining why we were putting together a handover document and you could see the client visibly wince whenever "hit by a bus" was said. I usually go with "if one of us is on holiday".

asddubs 5y ago
ha, he must've had a pretty visual imagination
detaro 5y ago
On the other hand, the "bus" scenario makes it very clear that it's the worst case that's a) not planned, b) no, you can't just call them anyways, even if its really really important and c) not something you can wait out until they return.
Viliam1234 5y ago
> I usually go with "if one of us is on holiday". I would expect this to get responses like "you need to take your phone with you on your holidays" or "you should plan your holidays so that they don't happen at the time when the application is most needed". In my experience, having the bus factor of one was not a problem for the company, it was a problem for me, because I needed to do a lot of negotiation about when to take my holidays. (After a few years I gave them the notice, and then it suddenly became a problem for the company.)