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> Linux is the preeminent operating system for programmers and other highly technical computer users, for whom it can be suitably molded to purpose in a manner

> Linux is the preeminent operating system for programmers and other highly technical computer users, for whom it can be suitably molded to purpose in a manner which is not possible using other operating systems. That could be so, although I'm in the opposite camp: MacOS is the preeminent operating system for me because it does the best job of getting out of my way and letting me work. I have no idea how to configure sound drivers on a Mac or what my current filesystem is (some version of APFS or something new?) because I've never been forced to learn as a prerequisite for getting work done.

diffeomorphism 5y ago
And you also have to do neither on linux. Also, just to compare apples to apples. If you buy a laptop with macos or linux preinstalled you of course have to do nothing because someone else did it for you. Install macos on a dell laptop and tell us how easy that was.
- neatze 5y ago
  > And you also have to do neither on linux. what makes you say this ?
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
  - rhn_mk1 5y ago
    Experience? If you buy a computer with Linux on it, you don't have to care.
  - pgcj_poster 5y ago
    I've ran Linux on 6 different consumer laptops, and I've never had to configure a sound driver. I have had to choose a file system, but only on Arch and Debian, which are targeted toward advanced users.
- newsbinator 5y ago
  The reason macOS is so problem-free (relative to Linux) is that for practical purposes it "can't" be installed on all but a couple specific pieces of hardware. That's the trade-off I've chosen: MacOS is guaranteed to work well on my laptop because they were designed and built together, for each other. Put another way: the fact an apples-to-apples comparison to Linux is impossible is the reason macOS wins for me.
  - rhn_mk1 5y ago
    I think you're ignoring the manufacturers of Linux laptops, like Purism or System76. Those are built together, for each other. Okay, maybe not as deeply as MacOS, but it's the only concern of those companies.
    - newsbinator 5y ago
      You might be right. I've never used a Purism or System76 laptop. If I can use it without ever having to know which boot loader I'm using (or what a boot loader is), what version of a given driver I have installed, which partition I'm writing to (or what a partition is), whether I'm currently logged in as root or as admin... ... that'd be comparable to MacOS, and it definitely opens the door to me switching to Linux if/when Apple takes a dark-enough turn. Now one might argue that every professional user, especially a programmer, should know what a boot loader is or what partition they should be writing to, since that's as basic a requirement to use a professional tool as touch-typing is. But I wouldn't agree with that; macOS abstracts away a lot of basic things, and that's why I like it.
      - rhn_mk1 5y ago
        You're not going to be disappointed when you give them a try then. They match your requirements so far. Sure, they have problems specific to them (e.g. losing encryption keys, some WiFi sticks unsupported by policy), but every ecosystem has rough edges you won't find elsewhere. BTW, there are more Linux-focused companies. Those two are just the ones I remember from the top of my head.
      - 5y ago
cassianoleal 5y ago
I am at the same position right now, and have been for a few years. macOS stays out of my way and lets me get on with my work. That said, a lot of what makes me effective at my work comes from many years of breaking, fixing, bending and molding Linux to my personal and professional needs; from understanding filesystems, their pros and cons, from compiling the kernel with different options; from compiling software from source in order to get an obscure library compiled in so my GPU would be accelerated, etc. Granted, the entire Linux ecosystem is much more stable these days but those were good times for learning about computers just trying to get your own computer to work. :)
rprospero 5y ago
It's interesting that you mentioned not needing to know about filesystems. About five years ago, I did a year of iPhone development and had to work on a Mac laptop. As part of this, I needed to get some files off an external hard drive I had, except the laptop wanted to reformat the drive every time it was plugged in. My Windows laptop and my Linux machine could read the drive just fine, but the Mac (and the guys at the Genius Bar) insisted that the drive was corrupted and there was no recoverable data. Eventually wound up using a Linux machine to copy the files I needed onto a thumb drive that the Mac had personally formatted. Took about ten trips to get everything copied over. The laptop lasted a couple of years before the motherboard failed. That hard drive is still going and hasn't had a single corrupted file.

diffeomorphism 5y ago

And you also have to do neither on linux. Also, just to compare apples to apples. If you buy a laptop with macos or linux preinstalled you of course have to do nothing because someone else did it for you. Install macos on a dell laptop and tell us how easy that was.

neatze 5y ago
> And you also have to do neither on linux. what makes you say this ?
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- rhn_mk1 5y ago
  Experience? If you buy a computer with Linux on it, you don't have to care.
- pgcj_poster 5y ago
  I've ran Linux on 6 different consumer laptops, and I've never had to configure a sound driver. I have had to choose a file system, but only on Arch and Debian, which are targeted toward advanced users.
newsbinator 5y ago
The reason macOS is so problem-free (relative to Linux) is that for practical purposes it "can't" be installed on all but a couple specific pieces of hardware. That's the trade-off I've chosen: MacOS is guaranteed to work well on my laptop because they were designed and built together, for each other. Put another way: the fact an apples-to-apples comparison to Linux is impossible is the reason macOS wins for me.
- rhn_mk1 5y ago
  I think you're ignoring the manufacturers of Linux laptops, like Purism or System76. Those are built together, for each other. Okay, maybe not as deeply as MacOS, but it's the only concern of those companies.
  - newsbinator 5y ago
    You might be right. I've never used a Purism or System76 laptop. If I can use it without ever having to know which boot loader I'm using (or what a boot loader is), what version of a given driver I have installed, which partition I'm writing to (or what a partition is), whether I'm currently logged in as root or as admin... ... that'd be comparable to MacOS, and it definitely opens the door to me switching to Linux if/when Apple takes a dark-enough turn. Now one might argue that every professional user, especially a programmer, should know what a boot loader is or what partition they should be writing to, since that's as basic a requirement to use a professional tool as touch-typing is. But I wouldn't agree with that; macOS abstracts away a lot of basic things, and that's why I like it.
    - rhn_mk1 5y ago
      You're not going to be disappointed when you give them a try then. They match your requirements so far. Sure, they have problems specific to them (e.g. losing encryption keys, some WiFi sticks unsupported by policy), but every ecosystem has rough edges you won't find elsewhere. BTW, there are more Linux-focused companies. Those two are just the ones I remember from the top of my head.
    - 5y ago

cassianoleal 5y ago

I am at the same position right now, and have been for a few years. macOS stays out of my way and lets me get on with my work. That said, a lot of what makes me effective at my work comes from many years of breaking, fixing, bending and molding Linux to my personal and professional needs; from understanding filesystems, their pros and cons, from compiling the kernel with different options; from compiling software from source in order to get an obscure library compiled in so my GPU would be accelerated, etc. Granted, the entire Linux ecosystem is much more stable these days but those were good times for learning about computers just trying to get your own computer to work. :)

rprospero 5y ago

It's interesting that you mentioned not needing to know about filesystems. About five years ago, I did a year of iPhone development and had to work on a Mac laptop. As part of this, I needed to get some files off an external hard drive I had, except the laptop wanted to reformat the drive every time it was plugged in. My Windows laptop and my Linux machine could read the drive just fine, but the Mac (and the guys at the Genius Bar) insisted that the drive was corrupted and there was no recoverable data. Eventually wound up using a Linux machine to copy the files I needed onto a thumb drive that the Mac had personally formatted. Took about ten trips to get everything copied over. The laptop lasted a couple of years before the motherboard failed. That hard drive is still going and hasn't had a single corrupted file.