6 ms·

I think USB-C solved some problems (no need to keep numerous different cables) but created another one - everything is now USB-C, and you can easily fry your th

by dig1 5y ago

I think USB-C solved some problems (no need to keep numerous different cables) but created another one - everything is now USB-C, and you can easily fry your things. My case: I lost the charger for T480 and purchased another one, not original from Lenovo, but something cheaper. I thought: the same specs, why should I pay 2-3x more. After two charges and a third attempted one, white smoke and smell of burned component. Motherboard replacement cost me almost 10x more of that original Lenovo charger. After this, I don't touch third-party USB-C cables unless they charge something I don't care about.

vladvasiliu 5y ago
But then again, you can now buy one (or more) "expensive" brand-name USB-C cables that will pretty much work with everything. The expensive Lenovo charger and cable will probably not fry the cheap junk you may have lying around. And it's still a win, you don't have to carry / find that one particular cable.
tuatoru 5y ago
This is a lovely illustration of the problems with USB-C. Anyone who thinks USB-C is better than the earlier variants has Stockholm Syndrome.
NikolaNovak 5y ago
Why is that a "usb c problem" as opposed to "cheap 3rd party charger problem"? I buy a lot of 3rd party chargers myself, but frying electronics with a bad cheap charger has existed long before usb c. (my personal life now with usb c is better... I buy a couple of quality chargers and cables and I'm good for everything. My Lenovo adapter can charge my phone in a pinch that's amazing! :)
- exikyut 5y ago
  Because of the purported interoperability explicitly implied by the U in USB, and what people have come to expect that stands for, AND the fact that the specs spell out charging protocols, voltage restrictions/limiting, etc, backwards and upside down. It's a bit like a sort of "good" inverse of DRM: that specific charger's failure doesn't fall into a grey area, it squarely calls it out as bad, because "you get a certification" is gated on a manufacturer's word that they've implemented the spec, and correctly. (DRM, by comparison, implements a "thou shall not pass" that is sufficiently complex that passage incontrovertibly equates to breakage. Here, the "thou shall pass" is tied to some complexity that the manufacturer clearly promised they implemented, but didn't.) I expect the GP could reasonably report where they got the charger to the USB-IF, and theoretically cause the manufacturer in question to receive a bit of heat for what occurred. Practically speaking the state of things suggests that the USB-IF is probably dealing with enough of a firehose of such reports it probably takes sufficiently long for action to be taken that manufacturers practically get away with this sort of thing :'( Obviously if the charger was purchased from somewhere like Amazon it'd probably never get taken down without reasonable expense (purchasing additional units to prove danger) and media fanfare. Hahah.
  - izacus 5y ago
    How is "purported interoperability" important here though? There were big news warning of highly proprietary cheap Apple chargers frying MacBooks as well. You're trying to blame USB-C for a problem that's completely orthogonal to it.
    - theshrike79 5y ago
      How is a user supposed to know which USB-C port is kosher for which USB-C cable? The connectors are exactly the same.
      - mox1 5y ago
        if you buy a quality charger, that actually follow the usb-c specs, you don’t need to know. When Lenovo wants $50 for a charger and you grab a $15 one off Amazon, don’t be overly surprised when it doesn’t follow the specs and cuts corners.
        hedora 5y ago
        I’m sure you can find someone willing to charge you $50 on Amazon for an equally-bad charger. Again, without some sort of standards enforcement, how can the end-purchaser differentiate between a quality cable and garbage.
        deleted 5y ago
        [deleted]
      - NikolaNovak 5y ago
        I feel we are still talking orthogonally. Connectors are the same, so what? A cheap and poor micro usb, or apple magsafe, or household 110v or whatever cable, can fry your stuff. Regardless of connector or standard or shape or size you can buy a quality product or a crap product. Usb c is not a sign of quality. It's a standard. I think to siblings point, you can buy an apple fake charger that can fry your Macbook. That's not apples fault or standard fault or universal design fault. That's a crappy no name cheap part fault. Don't get me wrong. I used to buy 50cent Dollarama cables too. Then I followed some of the links fellow hacker news folks posted and now I don't - whether usb c or whatever else. Seeing an oscilloscope or whatever graph of quality vs shoddy charger is illuminating and terrifying.

by dig1 5y ago

vladvasiliu 5y ago

But then again, you can now buy one (or more) "expensive" brand-name USB-C cables that will pretty much work with everything. The expensive Lenovo charger and cable will probably not fry the cheap junk you may have lying around. And it's still a win, you don't have to carry / find that one particular cable.

tuatoru 5y ago

This is a lovely illustration of the problems with USB-C. Anyone who thinks USB-C is better than the earlier variants has Stockholm Syndrome.

NikolaNovak 5y ago

Why is that a "usb c problem" as opposed to "cheap 3rd party charger problem"? I buy a lot of 3rd party chargers myself, but frying electronics with a bad cheap charger has existed long before usb c. (my personal life now with usb c is better... I buy a couple of quality chargers and cables and I'm good for everything. My Lenovo adapter can charge my phone in a pinch that's amazing! :)

exikyut 5y ago
Because of the purported interoperability explicitly implied by the U in USB, and what people have come to expect that stands for, AND the fact that the specs spell out charging protocols, voltage restrictions/limiting, etc, backwards and upside down. It's a bit like a sort of "good" inverse of DRM: that specific charger's failure doesn't fall into a grey area, it squarely calls it out as bad, because "you get a certification" is gated on a manufacturer's word that they've implemented the spec, and correctly. (DRM, by comparison, implements a "thou shall not pass" that is sufficiently complex that passage incontrovertibly equates to breakage. Here, the "thou shall pass" is tied to some complexity that the manufacturer clearly promised they implemented, but didn't.) I expect the GP could reasonably report where they got the charger to the USB-IF, and theoretically cause the manufacturer in question to receive a bit of heat for what occurred. Practically speaking the state of things suggests that the USB-IF is probably dealing with enough of a firehose of such reports it probably takes sufficiently long for action to be taken that manufacturers practically get away with this sort of thing :'( Obviously if the charger was purchased from somewhere like Amazon it'd probably never get taken down without reasonable expense (purchasing additional units to prove danger) and media fanfare. Hahah.
- izacus 5y ago
  How is "purported interoperability" important here though? There were big news warning of highly proprietary cheap Apple chargers frying MacBooks as well. You're trying to blame USB-C for a problem that's completely orthogonal to it.
  - theshrike79 5y ago
    How is a user supposed to know which USB-C port is kosher for which USB-C cable? The connectors are exactly the same.
    - mox1 5y ago
      if you buy a quality charger, that actually follow the usb-c specs, you don’t need to know. When Lenovo wants $50 for a charger and you grab a $15 one off Amazon, don’t be overly surprised when it doesn’t follow the specs and cuts corners.
      - hedora 5y ago
        I’m sure you can find someone willing to charge you $50 on Amazon for an equally-bad charger. Again, without some sort of standards enforcement, how can the end-purchaser differentiate between a quality cable and garbage.
        deleted 5y ago
        [deleted]
    - NikolaNovak 5y ago
      I feel we are still talking orthogonally. Connectors are the same, so what? A cheap and poor micro usb, or apple magsafe, or household 110v or whatever cable, can fry your stuff. Regardless of connector or standard or shape or size you can buy a quality product or a crap product. Usb c is not a sign of quality. It's a standard. I think to siblings point, you can buy an apple fake charger that can fry your Macbook. That's not apples fault or standard fault or universal design fault. That's a crappy no name cheap part fault. Don't get me wrong. I used to buy 50cent Dollarama cables too. Then I followed some of the links fellow hacker news folks posted and now I don't - whether usb c or whatever else. Seeing an oscilloscope or whatever graph of quality vs shoddy charger is illuminating and terrifying.