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There's a question that isn't answered and that's why would users care about those details of the backend. In the end, a solution can be as technologically eleg

There's a question that isn't answered and that's why would users care about those details of the backend. In the end, a solution can be as technologically elegant as you want, but the thing it really needs to do is improve from the users' point of view. And I don't think it does. For most people, a decentralized platform will usually be worse (speed, latency), and only very rarely better, than a centralized server. The "paying to access a database" will introduce a lot of issues both for users and developers, no matter how you implement it, for barely any user-facing improvement. And centralized processors appeared to make things easier, so you'd need a payment platform that is as least as easy and, also, that protects you against scams (AFAIK, you can't do too much if someone steals your crypto wallet or you forget the password). So while I agree that web3 could provide identify + payments, it doesn't need to be technically elegant, but user-facing elegant.

p2p_astroturf 5y ago
A BTC wallet is infinitely more user friendly than a banking website that only works in chrome xor firefox and constantly locks you out for reasons they don't want you to know about and severely limits your transfer sizes. If you do EFT and wait between 3 and 10 days each time, even bitcoin is better than this. Centralized web is horrible and dead. Literally _anything_ is a better alternative. The user can be convinced to adopt superior tech even if he does not explicitly know the problems. It just has to feel better. > it doesn't need to be technically elegant, but user-facing elegant. dont worry bro. the "set user = happy" voodoo dance has already been done. every cryptocoin wallet is a browser plugin or mobile app with 90% of code for themeing with all the bugs and slowness smartcrap/web users are accustomed to. you are even discouraged from rnunning yoyr own node
- paulryanrogers 5y ago
  > A BTC wallet is infinitely more user friendly than a banking website... Until there is fraud, a dispute, or an innocent mistake.
  - aptidude187 5y ago
    Same for traditional banking + if you happen to be a journalist ( or whatever ) living under an oppressive regime, they can freeze your assets on a whim, because you criticised the wrong people. If someone still prefers trusting a central authority, for whatever reason, they can still use something like coinbase.
    - lern_too_spel 5y ago
      If you're living under an oppressive regime, they can freeze turning your crypto into state-approved currency at a whim, and you have the same problem.
  - p2p_astroturf 5y ago
    You mean scammed with a bad or not shipped product? what is "fraud"? this is a statist buzzword. cryptocoins literally defend against all the bullshit i hate banks for: - if i give someone an address, they can withdraw money from me - if i eat pizza with someone, they can recover my bank account (since they ask obscure trivial like "how much and where did you last spend money at") - company #30 that asked for my ID can just use my ID to get my bank account - if i click two buttons too fast (on the website, or at the ATM), they will freeze my account for "hacking attempt" - they record my voice on the phone to "recognize" me, yet will still give out my account to some random person for some bullshit reason but aahhh, i see you're from the "everyone is an idiot and needs a personal cop to protect themselves from themselves" school of thought. edit: btw your idea doesn't even work. corpos who pretend to be "knowing" every user for their security literally just have 1 person for 10000 customers, who gets replaced monthly, and 100% of the time when you go in, they will not be able to correctly identify if the client is you or not
madsbuch 5y ago
Crypto is not binary. The vast majority Og people will likely use a custodian for their crypto. For them it will feel like banking feels now. Just like coinbase provide a visa card with collateral i your crypto. So essentially these questions really are answered -- it is not an all or nothing. We will keep, eg. Visa to facilitate retailer transactions with collateral in, eg., bitcoin. Bow you can dispute and everything and you pay in crypto.
- gjulianm 5y ago
  The parent is talking about using blockchain not just for payments, but as a building block for the web providing both identity and payments. Also, why would we want bitcoin or any crypto if most people will just use Visa? How does that achieve decentralization? I doubt the goal of cryptocoins is just "replace the financial backend that big companies use".

p2p_astroturf 5y ago

A BTC wallet is infinitely more user friendly than a banking website that only works in chrome xor firefox and constantly locks you out for reasons they don't want you to know about and severely limits your transfer sizes. If you do EFT and wait between 3 and 10 days each time, even bitcoin is better than this. Centralized web is horrible and dead. Literally _anything_ is a better alternative. The user can be convinced to adopt superior tech even if he does not explicitly know the problems. It just has to feel better. > it doesn't need to be technically elegant, but user-facing elegant. dont worry bro. the "set user = happy" voodoo dance has already been done. every cryptocoin wallet is a browser plugin or mobile app with 90% of code for themeing with all the bugs and slowness smartcrap/web users are accustomed to. you are even discouraged from rnunning yoyr own node

paulryanrogers 5y ago
> A BTC wallet is infinitely more user friendly than a banking website... Until there is fraud, a dispute, or an innocent mistake.
- aptidude187 5y ago
  Same for traditional banking + if you happen to be a journalist ( or whatever ) living under an oppressive regime, they can freeze your assets on a whim, because you criticised the wrong people. If someone still prefers trusting a central authority, for whatever reason, they can still use something like coinbase.
  - lern_too_spel 5y ago
    If you're living under an oppressive regime, they can freeze turning your crypto into state-approved currency at a whim, and you have the same problem.
- p2p_astroturf 5y ago
  You mean scammed with a bad or not shipped product? what is "fraud"? this is a statist buzzword. cryptocoins literally defend against all the bullshit i hate banks for: - if i give someone an address, they can withdraw money from me - if i eat pizza with someone, they can recover my bank account (since they ask obscure trivial like "how much and where did you last spend money at") - company #30 that asked for my ID can just use my ID to get my bank account - if i click two buttons too fast (on the website, or at the ATM), they will freeze my account for "hacking attempt" - they record my voice on the phone to "recognize" me, yet will still give out my account to some random person for some bullshit reason but aahhh, i see you're from the "everyone is an idiot and needs a personal cop to protect themselves from themselves" school of thought. edit: btw your idea doesn't even work. corpos who pretend to be "knowing" every user for their security literally just have 1 person for 10000 customers, who gets replaced monthly, and 100% of the time when you go in, they will not be able to correctly identify if the client is you or not

madsbuch 5y ago

Crypto is not binary. The vast majority Og people will likely use a custodian for their crypto. For them it will feel like banking feels now. Just like coinbase provide a visa card with collateral i your crypto. So essentially these questions really are answered -- it is not an all or nothing. We will keep, eg. Visa to facilitate retailer transactions with collateral in, eg., bitcoin. Bow you can dispute and everything and you pay in crypto.

gjulianm 5y ago
The parent is talking about using blockchain not just for payments, but as a building block for the web providing both identity and payments. Also, why would we want bitcoin or any crypto if most people will just use Visa? How does that achieve decentralization? I doubt the goal of cryptocoins is just "replace the financial backend that big companies use".