4 ms·

So does that mean there is literally nothing I can do about it? Except becoming a contractor?

by _odey 5y ago

akvadrako 5y ago
That isn't what he said – just it's the employer's by default. So get a contract that makes your outside work explicitly yours.
- ealexhudson 5y ago
  Exactly. Any form of "agree and accept that /X/ does not relate to the employment" sort of thing. But you have to be very specific about what is carved out.
- _odey 5y ago
  OK, that's good to hear. But now I need suggestions and feedback... In a previous thread https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24220858 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24220858 I've suggested the following: 13.8. $COMPANY and any Group Company will not attempt to claim copyright, intellectual property rights, nor patent right to any creation done outside of working hours (also known as employees free time), outside of the premises, and not using any $COMPANY facilities, as long as any such creation does not relate to the employees current responsibilities, and as long as it does not directly compete with $COMPANY business model and business activities. 13.9. As long as you do not go against clause 13.8, you are not obligated to disclose to us your creations. But this is just my wishful thinking of mine that nobody replied to... and not something that I've actually managed to get written and signed. What I'd like to see is a concrete example of such a clause in a real, existing, signed by both parties, actual contract.
  - wdb 5y ago
    Got to watch out with this one. My past experience is that even approving a PR on the company Wifi internet caused a lot of discussion regarding the use of company facilities
    - _odey 5y ago
      Company WiFi falls under their "equipment"/"facilities" as far as I'm concerned and it's fair for the company to be upset about you using it for your personal benefit in my opinion.
      - wdb 5y ago
        Indeed, sometimes you forgot you are connected to work Wifi on your phone :) Since then I don't install any work stuff on my phone anymore
rwmj 5y ago
Red Hat has an explicit clause in the contract allowing work on open source projects. As always best to consult a lawyer (not one connected to the company) if this is likely to be important to you.
- _odey 5y ago
  Would you, or somebody working, or who had worked for Red Hat be willing to copy paste that clause, or contract, redacted of course so we could use it as an example. Red Hat being who they are, their approach is extremely relevant to this situation.
  - rwmj 5y ago
    I did try to dig out the contract just now to see if I had a digital copy of it, but I don't think I do. It's likely to be a two decade old printed copy instead. I think you need to talk to a lawyer rather than trying to do this on the cheap. Your lawyer has your interests at heart, no one else does. If you're a member of a union (Prospect being a good one for digital workers) then they will have lawyers you can consult for free.
    - _odey 5y ago
      I will talk to a lawyer as well... but I'm really interested to see something concrete too. I've asked many times but I've never actually received an example of what an actual contract had written on it.

So does that mean there is literally nothing I can do about it? Except becoming a contractor?

by _odey 5y ago

So does that mean there is literally nothing I can do about it? Except becoming a contractor?

That isn't what he said – just it's the employer's by default. So get a contract that makes your outside work explicitly yours.

ealexhudson 5y ago
Exactly. Any form of "agree and accept that /X/ does not relate to the employment" sort of thing. But you have to be very specific about what is carved out.
_odey 5y ago
OK, that's good to hear. But now I need suggestions and feedback... In a previous thread https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24220858 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24220858 I've suggested the following: 13.8. $COMPANY and any Group Company will not attempt to claim copyright, intellectual property rights, nor patent right to any creation done outside of working hours (also known as employees free time), outside of the premises, and not using any $COMPANY facilities, as long as any such creation does not relate to the employees current responsibilities, and as long as it does not directly compete with $COMPANY business model and business activities. 13.9. As long as you do not go against clause 13.8, you are not obligated to disclose to us your creations. But this is just my wishful thinking of mine that nobody replied to... and not something that I've actually managed to get written and signed. What I'd like to see is a concrete example of such a clause in a real, existing, signed by both parties, actual contract.
- wdb 5y ago
  Got to watch out with this one. My past experience is that even approving a PR on the company Wifi internet caused a lot of discussion regarding the use of company facilities
  - _odey 5y ago
    Company WiFi falls under their "equipment"/"facilities" as far as I'm concerned and it's fair for the company to be upset about you using it for your personal benefit in my opinion.
    - wdb 5y ago
      Indeed, sometimes you forgot you are connected to work Wifi on your phone :) Since then I don't install any work stuff on my phone anymore

rwmj 5y ago

Red Hat has an explicit clause in the contract allowing work on open source projects. As always best to consult a lawyer (not one connected to the company) if this is likely to be important to you.

_odey 5y ago
Would you, or somebody working, or who had worked for Red Hat be willing to copy paste that clause, or contract, redacted of course so we could use it as an example. Red Hat being who they are, their approach is extremely relevant to this situation.
- rwmj 5y ago
  I did try to dig out the contract just now to see if I had a digital copy of it, but I don't think I do. It's likely to be a two decade old printed copy instead. I think you need to talk to a lawyer rather than trying to do this on the cheap. Your lawyer has your interests at heart, no one else does. If you're a member of a union (Prospect being a good one for digital workers) then they will have lawyers you can consult for free.
  - _odey 5y ago
    I will talk to a lawyer as well... but I'm really interested to see something concrete too. I've asked many times but I've never actually received an example of what an actual contract had written on it.