6 ms·

Fixing the Logitech MX Ergo Trackball Mouse Buttons

59 points by secure 5y ago

digitallyfree 5y ago
This is not just for trackballs - I've replaced the switches on my Corsair M95 (around 8 years old) twice already. And on the cheap Dell laser mouse I'm using now I had to swap the left click switch only after a year or so. Since most mice use the same Omron D2F switches I just keep a bag of spares at home.
convolvatron 5y ago
can confirm that this is a pretty nice trackball, except yeah, I've had to take it apart and fiddle with the switches and was about to buy a new one. thanks for the pointer to the replacement switches.
klyrs 5y ago
> One interesting side note: I noticed that when wearing noise canceling headphones, it was very hard to tell the worn-out Omron mouse buttons from the Kailh mouse buttons. The difference really is mostly in the sound, not in the feel when pressing the button down! I truly do not understand why people seem to like loud switches so much. I want my input devices to be inaudible. Am I in such a minority?
timdeve 5y ago
The quality of the switches in logitech product in the past few years has become laughable. I am currently using a 8 years old 502 because the newer one I got broke after nine months...
- Gracana 5y ago
  I went through multiple Logitech Anywhere MX mice (two at work, one at home) because the switches they use have a short throw and the part of the top shell that pushes on them is a small sliver that gets indented over time. Once the indent is large enough, it's impossible to keep the switch depressed. libinput can help deal with switch bounce, but it doesn't help with momentary releases that screw up click-and-drag operations. Now at work I use a cheap Dell wired mouse that works perfectly, and at home I have a Razer Deathadder Elite (or is it the pro X ultimate creator edition RGB plus max turbo..), and aside from being a little goofy-gamer-y, it works great too.
roosgit 5y ago
Somewhat related, a few weeks ago I managed to fix a Microsoft Sculpt Ergonomic mouse which I've been using for about 3 years. I would have to click a few times before it would register one click. Very annoying. Just like in this post, the problem was the switches. But in my case, the switches were micro switches. Not knowing where to order the correct parts and having no soldering skills, I decided to pry open the micro switch. Luckily it was possible. Taking the metal cap off, inside the switch there was a rubber membrane and a flexible metal disk. The disk was similar to a jar lid. The edges would touch the circuit board, and pushing the center of the metal disk, it would make it touch some conductive part of the board and it would "close the circuit". The problem was that the flexible metal disk inside the micro switch was dirty. Oxidized, probably. I cleaned it, put the switch back together and the mouse works perfectly.
- jnellis 5y ago
  You've just described how to diagnose and repair an Atari 2600 joystick from the early 80's.
sirn 5y ago
I'm also using the MX Ergo, but I replaced D2FC-F (made in China) with D2F-01F (made in Japan). So far, it has been working great, and I love how it feels compared to the stock switch. The video linked in the article also mentioned (in the description) that D2F-01F may last longer electrically since it's micro-load rated (1mA instead of 100mA), so I guess I'm safe for a while (although it's only rated 1M mechanically).
bloopernova 5y ago
Shout out to Ploopy trackballs. I have one of their mice and love it to bits. https://ploopy.co/ https://ploopy.co/ QMK and high quality switches/buttons, easily disassembled and cleaned.
- klyrs 5y ago
  Ooh, they've got a thumb-ball now! edit > Because this trackball has roller bearings, it’s noticeably louder that other trackballs. It makes a sort of scratchy grinding noise when the ball is moved. It’s a noise that you will notice during use. sigh
elorant 5y ago
I'm using a Logitech Marble for ten years straight. Damn thing works like a charm.
- dboreham 5y ago
  They changed supplier for microswitches some years ago, to one that makes switches with short lifetime. Presumably someone got a nice bonus.
superjan 5y ago
Nice to know repair is still possible in this generation of the product. I repaired a trackman marble the same way some 10 years ago. It’s nevertheless sad that the design is flawed like that.
gedy 5y ago
As a trackball user for 25 years, am pretty happy with Elecom: https://elecomus.com/web/product-category/trackball-mouse/ https://elecomus.com/web/product-category/trackball-mouse/
- simtel20 5y ago
  I've only gotten about 2 years of use out of each of mine, and I've owned 4 in the past 6 years. I've changed to the newer Kensington models, and I like the scroll ring, but the ball movent seems more jumpy. Maybe one of those ploopys would be my nexy move if the Kensington dies or if I want to play a game.
rob74 5y ago
> The replacement mouse buttons I’m using are Kailh GM 8.0 from the Kailh Official Store on AliExpress, which are advertised as “ultra high life”. Now, I know "ultra long life", but what is "ultra high life"? Sounds more like "live fast, die young, leave a beautiful body" to me - but I'm not sure how that applies to microswitches...
protomyth 5y ago
I was to ticked when my last wired 550 went bad. The Max Ergo just feels cheaper. I guess when it breaks, I'll try this. I really wish someone else did a thumb trackball. The center ones don't work for me.
ars 5y ago
Anyone have a recommendation for a tilt-wheel mouse, that also does a good job with middle click? A lot of reviews said it's hard to have both.
ghastmaster 5y ago
For those of you who are not able to solder, this classic article from 2005 has guided me through several logitech repairs of the switches over the years: https://www.overclockers.com/mouse-clicking-troubles-diy-repair/ https://www.overclockers.com/mouse-clicking-troubles-diy-rep... As the presenter in the video states, it may be too tedious, warranting the quick solder job if you have the skills and tools.
bcl 5y ago
I've had to do the same thing with pretty much all of my Logitech trackballs - https://www.brianlane.com/post/fixing-a-few-logitech-trackballs/ https://www.brianlane.com/post/fixing-a-few-logitech-trackba... They do last for quite a while, but eventually one of the switches will go intermittent, depending on how much minecraft the user has been playing...
jh37 5y ago
The super easy fix for these buttons is to take the unit apart and then spray the buttons with WD-40. Works every time.
ivank 5y ago
Without any soldering equipment to replace the entire switch, click/hold issues on mice can still be fixed: one can open up the Omron switch and replace just the spring, using a donor spring from a new switch or some unused mouse lying around. https://electronics.stackexchange.com/questions/29955/how-do-i-fix-an-omron-d2fc-f-7n-microswitch-from-unwanted-clicks https://electronics.stackexchange.com/questions/29955/how-do...
boomskats 5y ago
I remember Michael talking about this on Twitter a couple of months ago. Good to know that these Kailhs are a worthy third alternative to the 'Japanese vs Chinese Omron' switch debate.
jagger27 5y ago
I modified my Logitech G305 with Kailh silent switches[0] and it has been lovely. It's also super empowering to know that I can easily repair and even improve these devices if and when the switches fail. I've probably thrown out half a dozen mice in the last ten years because of failed microswitches when the rest of the hardware was fine. [0]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hV2BWK6v2-0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hV2BWK6v2-0
Ciantic 5y ago
I have four G604 mouses. On three of them middle button broke about 6 - 9 months in use. I got two mouses "for free", as I was not required to send the old ones back and they just sent me new ones from warranty. It's remarkable how many different kind of switches even within the same model they have. I think only two of the four have same feel to the switches. Some have stronger actuation force, and some are nearly noiseless. I have opened up few of the mouses and the switches are even different color, one had white and one had black switches. I will definitely look up these third party switches, if they are more consistent in quality than what ever the logitech puts in these.
valiant-comma 5y ago
Prompted some memories of using another trackball. Back in maybe the late 80’s/early 90’s the Microsoft Ballpoint Mouse[1] was my preferred pointing device. It didn’t require a smooth surface like a normal mouse, was very portable, and attached to the side of basically any laptop. However, it included a pressure collar of sorts, which increased the ratio of static vs. kinetic coefficient of sliding friction. Basically any time you started to move the mouse the pointer would jump. Fine movement was very difficult. The solution was to unscrew the retainer ring, remove the pressure collar, and reassemble. Problem solved; after that it was a joy to use. [1] https://www.microsoft.com/buxtoncollection/detail.aspx?id=224 https://www.microsoft.com/buxtoncollection/detail.aspx?id=22...
baylessj 5y ago
I'm really glad that this article got posted, I've been experiencing the same symptoms intermittently with my MX ergo but they haven't been quite enough of a pain for me to remember to look into fixing it. I will be taking a look at this solution (and the WD-40 temp fix mentioned by jh37) here now!

59 points by secure 5y ago

This is not just for trackballs - I've replaced the switches on my Corsair M95 (around 8 years old) twice already. And on the cheap Dell laser mouse I'm using now I had to swap the left click switch only after a year or so. Since most mice use the same Omron D2F switches I just keep a bag of spares at home.

convolvatron 5y ago

can confirm that this is a pretty nice trackball, except yeah, I've had to take it apart and fiddle with the switches and was about to buy a new one. thanks for the pointer to the replacement switches.

klyrs 5y ago

> One interesting side note: I noticed that when wearing noise canceling headphones, it was very hard to tell the worn-out Omron mouse buttons from the Kailh mouse buttons. The difference really is mostly in the sound, not in the feel when pressing the button down! I truly do not understand why people seem to like loud switches so much. I want my input devices to be inaudible. Am I in such a minority?

timdeve 5y ago

The quality of the switches in logitech product in the past few years has become laughable. I am currently using a 8 years old 502 because the newer one I got broke after nine months...

Gracana 5y ago
I went through multiple Logitech Anywhere MX mice (two at work, one at home) because the switches they use have a short throw and the part of the top shell that pushes on them is a small sliver that gets indented over time. Once the indent is large enough, it's impossible to keep the switch depressed. libinput can help deal with switch bounce, but it doesn't help with momentary releases that screw up click-and-drag operations. Now at work I use a cheap Dell wired mouse that works perfectly, and at home I have a Razer Deathadder Elite (or is it the pro X ultimate creator edition RGB plus max turbo..), and aside from being a little goofy-gamer-y, it works great too.

roosgit 5y ago

Somewhat related, a few weeks ago I managed to fix a Microsoft Sculpt Ergonomic mouse which I've been using for about 3 years. I would have to click a few times before it would register one click. Very annoying. Just like in this post, the problem was the switches. But in my case, the switches were micro switches. Not knowing where to order the correct parts and having no soldering skills, I decided to pry open the micro switch. Luckily it was possible. Taking the metal cap off, inside the switch there was a rubber membrane and a flexible metal disk. The disk was similar to a jar lid. The edges would touch the circuit board, and pushing the center of the metal disk, it would make it touch some conductive part of the board and it would "close the circuit". The problem was that the flexible metal disk inside the micro switch was dirty. Oxidized, probably. I cleaned it, put the switch back together and the mouse works perfectly.

jnellis 5y ago
You've just described how to diagnose and repair an Atari 2600 joystick from the early 80's.

sirn 5y ago

I'm also using the MX Ergo, but I replaced D2FC-F (made in China) with D2F-01F (made in Japan). So far, it has been working great, and I love how it feels compared to the stock switch. The video linked in the article also mentioned (in the description) that D2F-01F may last longer electrically since it's micro-load rated (1mA instead of 100mA), so I guess I'm safe for a while (although it's only rated 1M mechanically).

bloopernova 5y ago

Shout out to Ploopy trackballs. I have one of their mice and love it to bits. https://ploopy.co/ https://ploopy.co/ QMK and high quality switches/buttons, easily disassembled and cleaned.

klyrs 5y ago
Ooh, they've got a thumb-ball now! edit > Because this trackball has roller bearings, it’s noticeably louder that other trackballs. It makes a sort of scratchy grinding noise when the ball is moved. It’s a noise that you will notice during use. sigh

elorant 5y ago

I'm using a Logitech Marble for ten years straight. Damn thing works like a charm.

dboreham 5y ago
They changed supplier for microswitches some years ago, to one that makes switches with short lifetime. Presumably someone got a nice bonus.

superjan 5y ago

Nice to know repair is still possible in this generation of the product. I repaired a trackman marble the same way some 10 years ago. It’s nevertheless sad that the design is flawed like that.

gedy 5y ago

As a trackball user for 25 years, am pretty happy with Elecom: https://elecomus.com/web/product-category/trackball-mouse/ https://elecomus.com/web/product-category/trackball-mouse/

simtel20 5y ago
I've only gotten about 2 years of use out of each of mine, and I've owned 4 in the past 6 years. I've changed to the newer Kensington models, and I like the scroll ring, but the ball movent seems more jumpy. Maybe one of those ploopys would be my nexy move if the Kensington dies or if I want to play a game.

rob74 5y ago

> The replacement mouse buttons I’m using are Kailh GM 8.0 from the Kailh Official Store on AliExpress, which are advertised as “ultra high life”. Now, I know "ultra long life", but what is "ultra high life"? Sounds more like "live fast, die young, leave a beautiful body" to me - but I'm not sure how that applies to microswitches...

protomyth 5y ago

I was to ticked when my last wired 550 went bad. The Max Ergo just feels cheaper. I guess when it breaks, I'll try this. I really wish someone else did a thumb trackball. The center ones don't work for me.

ars 5y ago

Anyone have a recommendation for a tilt-wheel mouse, that also does a good job with middle click? A lot of reviews said it's hard to have both.

ghastmaster 5y ago

For those of you who are not able to solder, this classic article from 2005 has guided me through several logitech repairs of the switches over the years: https://www.overclockers.com/mouse-clicking-troubles-diy-repair/ https://www.overclockers.com/mouse-clicking-troubles-diy-rep... As the presenter in the video states, it may be too tedious, warranting the quick solder job if you have the skills and tools.

bcl 5y ago

I've had to do the same thing with pretty much all of my Logitech trackballs - https://www.brianlane.com/post/fixing-a-few-logitech-trackballs/ https://www.brianlane.com/post/fixing-a-few-logitech-trackba... They do last for quite a while, but eventually one of the switches will go intermittent, depending on how much minecraft the user has been playing...

jh37 5y ago

The super easy fix for these buttons is to take the unit apart and then spray the buttons with WD-40. Works every time.

ivank 5y ago

Without any soldering equipment to replace the entire switch, click/hold issues on mice can still be fixed: one can open up the Omron switch and replace just the spring, using a donor spring from a new switch or some unused mouse lying around. https://electronics.stackexchange.com/questions/29955/how-do-i-fix-an-omron-d2fc-f-7n-microswitch-from-unwanted-clicks https://electronics.stackexchange.com/questions/29955/how-do...

boomskats 5y ago

I remember Michael talking about this on Twitter a couple of months ago. Good to know that these Kailhs are a worthy third alternative to the 'Japanese vs Chinese Omron' switch debate.

jagger27 5y ago

I modified my Logitech G305 with Kailh silent switches[0] and it has been lovely. It's also super empowering to know that I can easily repair and even improve these devices if and when the switches fail. I've probably thrown out half a dozen mice in the last ten years because of failed microswitches when the rest of the hardware was fine. [0]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hV2BWK6v2-0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hV2BWK6v2-0

Ciantic 5y ago

I have four G604 mouses. On three of them middle button broke about 6 - 9 months in use. I got two mouses "for free", as I was not required to send the old ones back and they just sent me new ones from warranty. It's remarkable how many different kind of switches even within the same model they have. I think only two of the four have same feel to the switches. Some have stronger actuation force, and some are nearly noiseless. I have opened up few of the mouses and the switches are even different color, one had white and one had black switches. I will definitely look up these third party switches, if they are more consistent in quality than what ever the logitech puts in these.

valiant-comma 5y ago

Prompted some memories of using another trackball. Back in maybe the late 80’s/early 90’s the Microsoft Ballpoint Mouse[1] was my preferred pointing device. It didn’t require a smooth surface like a normal mouse, was very portable, and attached to the side of basically any laptop. However, it included a pressure collar of sorts, which increased the ratio of static vs. kinetic coefficient of sliding friction. Basically any time you started to move the mouse the pointer would jump. Fine movement was very difficult. The solution was to unscrew the retainer ring, remove the pressure collar, and reassemble. Problem solved; after that it was a joy to use. [1] https://www.microsoft.com/buxtoncollection/detail.aspx?id=224 https://www.microsoft.com/buxtoncollection/detail.aspx?id=22...

baylessj 5y ago

I'm really glad that this article got posted, I've been experiencing the same symptoms intermittently with my MX ergo but they haven't been quite enough of a pain for me to remember to look into fixing it. I will be taking a look at this solution (and the WD-40 temp fix mentioned by jh37) here now!