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OP lives I an area with an unreliable power grid - Texas

by lhoff 5y ago

erichocean 5y ago
I live in an area with an unreliable power grid — California. My friend lives nearby and has a whole house generator. Uses it 2-5 times per year. It's funny at night when he's the only guy in the neighborhood with his lights on. Runs on natural gas.
markvdb 5y ago
Cool to have a residential backup electric power generator. The monitoring system also looks interesting. I wonder if the author could shed some light on the reasons for this technical choice though, because my back-of-the-envelope calculations just don't end up with this kind of tech. The Generac is about $13000 excluding install. A Tesla Powerwall+ $11500 installed without subsidies. The electric power consumption at our place is under 5.5 kWh per day on average, with very few peaks. Slightly less than average for Belgium, but not by a lot. I realise residential power consumption may be higher in the US, but probably not by an order of magnitude. A popular home battery, the Tesla Powerwall does 13.5 kWh. That's 2.5 days already without any solar. Add enough solar and you've got basicly unlimited backup. In a single family home with a garage, one can also easily add vehicle to grid for extra emergency storage. Friendlier to the environment, lower maintenance, cheaper. Unless one consumes over 7 kW continuous or 10 kW peak in an emergency situation.
- msandford 5y ago
  > The electric power consumption at our place is under 5.5 kWh per day on average, with very few peaks. That's why your back-of-the-envelope doesn't necessarily add up with the author's. In the US South (at least where people run AC) it's entirely possible to use 24 to 48 kWh per day. There are big, fancy houses people own that could double, triple or quadruple that. http://shrinkthatfootprint.com/average-household-electricity-consumption http://shrinkthatfootprint.com/average-household-electricity...
- fjfjfdkdkd 5y ago
  >the Tesla Powerwall does 13.5 kWh One liter of diesel, costing a few of your local currency, stores 10kwh. >Add enough solar At enormous cost >my back-of-the-envelope calculations just don't end up with this kind of tech. That's because you have erroneously conflated several different variables. A diesel generator is by far the cheapest way to generate that much power.
  - ComputerGuru 5y ago
    I was with you up until here: > A diesel generator is by far the cheapest way to generate that much power. Natural Gas generators (like the OP’s) are much cheaper.
- bob1029 5y ago
  If this is a Texas install, then the house could be running upwards of 5 tons of HVAC capacity. This is a monster load that is very unusual outside of southern US states. Getting through a hurricane is a lot easier when you can pull humidity out of your house the whole time. Running this much cooling on 1 powerwall would take you about 4 hours before you are in the same boat as everyone else. In many cases you need to go 72+ hours non stop. Gulf coast does not cool down that much at night after a cat5 blows through. It's practically unsurvivable in some cases.
- monstermunch 5y ago
  Author here. It was $20K installed total I also have 17kw of solar on my roof, and overproduce. I have 1:1 net metering, so a battery will not help financially unless that ends. the only utility a battery provides is backup power In the middle of summer I will use around 80kwh a day with lots of AC usage (Yes, I could get more insulation, better ducts, switch to minisplits. all in progress) A lot of that is at night, because it doesn't get any cooler at night really. It still stays hot and humid. Between sun I'm using around 30kwh, so I'd need 3 x Tesla Power Walls JUST TO MAKE THE NIGHT and hope it was sunny the day before to fully charge, and sunny the next day The cost for that is over $30,000, only makes the night, and still only outputs around the same as the generator. If it's not sunny but it's still warm, I'll be without power in a short time. If I'm spending that amount of money, I want power to stay on no matter what I'm waiting for Enhpase or Tesla, or someone to come out with an AC Coupled grid tie battery that has full generator support. That is the dream. Then in low solar days it could pre-charge the battery with the generator for night time. I don't want to drop a ton of cash now, when that is surely on the horizon. Either that, or the ability to use a car as a battery. If I could use a Tesla as a battery, I would probably go buy a 100 model Tesla. That would be 100kwh! much better
  - AdrianB1 5y ago
    Until now I felt bad by consuming ~ 10kWh per day on average, now it is more clear why the climate warming discussions are a waste of time.
    - monstermunch 5y ago
      If it helps, I have solar and overproduce so I'm net negative on carbon for electric at least
  - jqcoffey 5y ago
    > Either that, or the ability to use a car as a battery. Not sure if it fits the bill for you, but the new Ford F-150 lightning can supply 9.6kw of continuous power: > With the ability to offload 9.6 kilowatts of power, Ford Intelligent Backup Power keeps the lights on during an outage while providing security by powering home appliances, security systems and more Ref: https://media.ford.com/content/fordmedia/fna/us/en/news/2021/05/19/all-electric-ford-f-150-lightning.html https://media.ford.com/content/fordmedia/fna/us/en/news/2021...
- tzs 5y ago
  > The electric power consumption at our place is under 5.5 kWh per day on average, with very few peaks. Slightly less than average for Belgium, That's an average of about 230 watts. How do you get that low? An idling iMac with Intel processor is around 70 watts, according to Apple. My refrigerator is suppose to average about 50 watts. That's halfway to your usage right there. In the summer, when I don't need heat, I usually have a box fan in a window to circulate air, which is another 50 watts. Add another 10 watts for my cable modem and router. There's probably another 20 watts total for various other things like TV in standby, a couple of smart speakers for voice control and music, and network switches. So that's got me to 87% of your usage just from things that are happening all the time when I'm not even doing anything! (Oh, and there is an outdoor security light that comes on at night. I have no idea what its power use is (or even what technology it uses [1])). Then there are the things whose power depends on what I'm doing. Microwave and toaster oven once a day to make breakfast, and sometimes to make other meals. About 40 minutes walking on my treadmill. Electric pump at my well to supply my water. Electric lights. Electric water heater for my hot water. I also actually use my computer and my TV at times, so they are often using quite a bit more than idle or standby power. That's got me way over your usage on an ordinary day when I'm just doing my daily things. Looking at my records, the lowest I've gotten down to is about 12 kWh in a day, which I can hit in summer, although average in summer is a little higher due to things like an electric washer and dryer that I typically use a little more than once a week, and an electric dishwasher used a little less than once a week. The internet tells me that about half the households in Belgium have natural gas. Are you doing with gas some of the things I do with electricity, like water heating and cooking? [1] Seriously, I have no idea what the heck it is, except that it is not LED. It has been there as long as I've owned the house, running every night. It has accumulated at least 50000 on hours since I've been here, which is quite a bit longer than the expected lifetime of every kind of bulb I've found that otherwise looks like it might be the same technology.
  - lultimouomo 5y ago
    I also run around 6kWh/day. Natural gas for heating, hot water, stove (but electric microwave and oven). I run a mini-itx Intel i5 server 24/7, a PS4 constantly I standby, a bunch of ESP8266 smart plugs and sensors, a projector in place of a TV (I think it uses 500W when it's on). No dryer, no particular effort to reduce electricity usage beyond what I was taught as a child. Three people (one of which working from home) and a bunch of pets in a 110m2 house.

OP lives I an area with an unreliable power grid - Texas

by lhoff 5y ago

OP lives I an area with an unreliable power grid - Texas

I live in an area with an unreliable power grid — California. My friend lives nearby and has a whole house generator. Uses it 2-5 times per year. It's funny at night when he's the only guy in the neighborhood with his lights on. Runs on natural gas.

markvdb 5y ago

Cool to have a residential backup electric power generator. The monitoring system also looks interesting. I wonder if the author could shed some light on the reasons for this technical choice though, because my back-of-the-envelope calculations just don't end up with this kind of tech. The Generac is about $13000 excluding install. A Tesla Powerwall+ $11500 installed without subsidies. The electric power consumption at our place is under 5.5 kWh per day on average, with very few peaks. Slightly less than average for Belgium, but not by a lot. I realise residential power consumption may be higher in the US, but probably not by an order of magnitude. A popular home battery, the Tesla Powerwall does 13.5 kWh. That's 2.5 days already without any solar. Add enough solar and you've got basicly unlimited backup. In a single family home with a garage, one can also easily add vehicle to grid for extra emergency storage. Friendlier to the environment, lower maintenance, cheaper. Unless one consumes over 7 kW continuous or 10 kW peak in an emergency situation.

msandford 5y ago
> The electric power consumption at our place is under 5.5 kWh per day on average, with very few peaks. That's why your back-of-the-envelope doesn't necessarily add up with the author's. In the US South (at least where people run AC) it's entirely possible to use 24 to 48 kWh per day. There are big, fancy houses people own that could double, triple or quadruple that. http://shrinkthatfootprint.com/average-household-electricity-consumption http://shrinkthatfootprint.com/average-household-electricity...
fjfjfdkdkd 5y ago
>the Tesla Powerwall does 13.5 kWh One liter of diesel, costing a few of your local currency, stores 10kwh. >Add enough solar At enormous cost >my back-of-the-envelope calculations just don't end up with this kind of tech. That's because you have erroneously conflated several different variables. A diesel generator is by far the cheapest way to generate that much power.
- ComputerGuru 5y ago
  I was with you up until here: > A diesel generator is by far the cheapest way to generate that much power. Natural Gas generators (like the OP’s) are much cheaper.
bob1029 5y ago
If this is a Texas install, then the house could be running upwards of 5 tons of HVAC capacity. This is a monster load that is very unusual outside of southern US states. Getting through a hurricane is a lot easier when you can pull humidity out of your house the whole time. Running this much cooling on 1 powerwall would take you about 4 hours before you are in the same boat as everyone else. In many cases you need to go 72+ hours non stop. Gulf coast does not cool down that much at night after a cat5 blows through. It's practically unsurvivable in some cases.
monstermunch 5y ago
Author here. It was $20K installed total I also have 17kw of solar on my roof, and overproduce. I have 1:1 net metering, so a battery will not help financially unless that ends. the only utility a battery provides is backup power In the middle of summer I will use around 80kwh a day with lots of AC usage (Yes, I could get more insulation, better ducts, switch to minisplits. all in progress) A lot of that is at night, because it doesn't get any cooler at night really. It still stays hot and humid. Between sun I'm using around 30kwh, so I'd need 3 x Tesla Power Walls JUST TO MAKE THE NIGHT and hope it was sunny the day before to fully charge, and sunny the next day The cost for that is over $30,000, only makes the night, and still only outputs around the same as the generator. If it's not sunny but it's still warm, I'll be without power in a short time. If I'm spending that amount of money, I want power to stay on no matter what I'm waiting for Enhpase or Tesla, or someone to come out with an AC Coupled grid tie battery that has full generator support. That is the dream. Then in low solar days it could pre-charge the battery with the generator for night time. I don't want to drop a ton of cash now, when that is surely on the horizon. Either that, or the ability to use a car as a battery. If I could use a Tesla as a battery, I would probably go buy a 100 model Tesla. That would be 100kwh! much better
- AdrianB1 5y ago
  Until now I felt bad by consuming ~ 10kWh per day on average, now it is more clear why the climate warming discussions are a waste of time.
  - monstermunch 5y ago
    If it helps, I have solar and overproduce so I'm net negative on carbon for electric at least
- jqcoffey 5y ago
  > Either that, or the ability to use a car as a battery. Not sure if it fits the bill for you, but the new Ford F-150 lightning can supply 9.6kw of continuous power: > With the ability to offload 9.6 kilowatts of power, Ford Intelligent Backup Power keeps the lights on during an outage while providing security by powering home appliances, security systems and more Ref: https://media.ford.com/content/fordmedia/fna/us/en/news/2021/05/19/all-electric-ford-f-150-lightning.html https://media.ford.com/content/fordmedia/fna/us/en/news/2021...
tzs 5y ago
> The electric power consumption at our place is under 5.5 kWh per day on average, with very few peaks. Slightly less than average for Belgium, That's an average of about 230 watts. How do you get that low? An idling iMac with Intel processor is around 70 watts, according to Apple. My refrigerator is suppose to average about 50 watts. That's halfway to your usage right there. In the summer, when I don't need heat, I usually have a box fan in a window to circulate air, which is another 50 watts. Add another 10 watts for my cable modem and router. There's probably another 20 watts total for various other things like TV in standby, a couple of smart speakers for voice control and music, and network switches. So that's got me to 87% of your usage just from things that are happening all the time when I'm not even doing anything! (Oh, and there is an outdoor security light that comes on at night. I have no idea what its power use is (or even what technology it uses [1])). Then there are the things whose power depends on what I'm doing. Microwave and toaster oven once a day to make breakfast, and sometimes to make other meals. About 40 minutes walking on my treadmill. Electric pump at my well to supply my water. Electric lights. Electric water heater for my hot water. I also actually use my computer and my TV at times, so they are often using quite a bit more than idle or standby power. That's got me way over your usage on an ordinary day when I'm just doing my daily things. Looking at my records, the lowest I've gotten down to is about 12 kWh in a day, which I can hit in summer, although average in summer is a little higher due to things like an electric washer and dryer that I typically use a little more than once a week, and an electric dishwasher used a little less than once a week. The internet tells me that about half the households in Belgium have natural gas. Are you doing with gas some of the things I do with electricity, like water heating and cooking? [1] Seriously, I have no idea what the heck it is, except that it is not LED. It has been there as long as I've owned the house, running every night. It has accumulated at least 50000 on hours since I've been here, which is quite a bit longer than the expected lifetime of every kind of bulb I've found that otherwise looks like it might be the same technology.
- lultimouomo 5y ago
  I also run around 6kWh/day. Natural gas for heating, hot water, stove (but electric microwave and oven). I run a mini-itx Intel i5 server 24/7, a PS4 constantly I standby, a bunch of ESP8266 smart plugs and sensors, a projector in place of a TV (I think it uses 500W when it's on). No dryer, no particular effort to reduce electricity usage beyond what I was taught as a child. Three people (one of which working from home) and a bunch of pets in a 110m2 house.