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Download logo’s, see how a statement would look, and create one yourself. Print it, fold it and make a photo. Always works for me when I am asked for a statemen

by rgj 5y ago

Download logo’s, see how a statement would look, and create one yourself. Print it, fold it and make a photo. Always works for me when I am asked for a statement from a full digital service. My energy provider used to perform an immediate change of address which would be visible on your latest downloadable PDF invoice. This allowed even people without the most basic computer skills to validate _any_ address. Long story short, all those processes eventually depend on “proof” that is really easy to fabricate. Dutch banks invented the iDin standard, some kind of oAuth with your bank that provides third parties with validated personal information, but it is not widely used and I am not aware of an international standard or initiative for this.

neilv 5y ago
As much as it might seem practically expedient, I'd advise not doing this. I'm imagining a lawyer for the injured person hearing they resorted to fabricating evidence, lawyer looking sad or irritated, and telling the person there's nothing the lawyer can do for them now. At least not on the original problem, though now the person might have an additional problem.
kwhitefoot 5y ago
It's no wonder that ID fraud is so rampant in countries like the US and UK in comparison to countries like Norway that have a national ID service (BankID). There is no way that my Norwegian bank would accept a utility bill as any kind of support of ID. Instead they send a letter to my registered address (national population register) with instructions to take it and my driving license or passport to the post office who will act as a notary and report to the bank that I am the person that the letter is addressed to. From then on BankID (using a one time pad, SIM card, or code generator) can be used to log in to pretty much all banks and government services.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- k4rli 5y ago
  BankID with a digitally signed utility bill should be enough for AML/KYC. I was developing one fintech app recently and I never heard of this requirement.
  - kwhitefoot 5y ago
    If I use BankID why would I also need to supply a utility bill? Or are you using the term BankID in some generic sense? BankID is the name of a company that provides a service of the same name: https://www.bankid.no/en/private/ https://www.bankid.no/en/private/
- avianlyric 5y ago
  Norway is a bit unusual in the way it handles ID. In many parts of the world (including the US & U.K.) the idea of central government holding an accessible database of everyone’s identifies, and mandating participation, is cultural and political suicide. We can argue all day about whether or not this is a good idea. But ultimately, it’s red lines we’ve drawn in the ground, and we’ve decided the trade off (such as identity theft) is worth it. In the U.K. at least, two World Wars have taught us to be wary of central government databases. We’ve seen how they can be abused people in power seeking to persecute part of a population, and even now we’re seeing it again with the U.K.s governments persecution of migrants. At least in the U.K. there are clear and simple guidelines for undoing the damage caused by identity theft. If a bank account or loan was opened in your name, the bank has to close it and write off any losses, and they should compensate you for the trouble. If the mess you around, there’s a number of Ombudsmen and regulators filled with people waiting to take the financial organisation to task and make them really regret their obstinance (I’ve been on the receiving end of their wrath, it’s not much fun). All of this creates very strong incentive for banks to prevent identity theft in the U.K. Unfortunately US consumer protection is lacking in comparison.
  - TomSwirly 5y ago
    > In many parts of the world (including the US & U.K.) the idea of central government holding an accessible database of everyone’s identifies, and mandating participation, is cultural and political suicide. That's because the US and the UK are mentally ill cultures actually engaged in cultural and political suicide, so any practical, useful ideas like that are considered suspect. > Unfortunately US consumer protection is lacking in comparison. That's what happens when a whole country decided to mistrust their elected government and instead put their faith in corporations.
  - felixhammerl 5y ago
    I find it strange that folks in the US and UK, given that these are championing modern dragnet surveillance, would recoil at the idea of government issued ID, thus forcing everyone to come up with error-prone workarounds enabling identity fraud. As a German, the idea of a bill proving anything at all is just wild.
- Aachen 5y ago
  > There is no way that my Norwegian bank would accept a utility bill as any kind of support of ID. It's not ID, it's proof of address, separate from proving identity afaik. Mtgox wanted to see ID, but because my ID doesn't say my address they also needed some somewhat official letter addressed to me on this address.
  - cywick 5y ago
    Well, it's not really proof of address either because it's so easy to forge, which was OP's main point.
ksec 5y ago
>Dutch banks invented the iDin standard, Oh this is genius! Why aren't others doing it? My guess is that Banks have no incentive to do so? After all Auth and validated personal information is not their business anyway?

by rgj 5y ago

neilv 5y ago

As much as it might seem practically expedient, I'd advise not doing this. I'm imagining a lawyer for the injured person hearing they resorted to fabricating evidence, lawyer looking sad or irritated, and telling the person there's nothing the lawyer can do for them now. At least not on the original problem, though now the person might have an additional problem.

kwhitefoot 5y ago

It's no wonder that ID fraud is so rampant in countries like the US and UK in comparison to countries like Norway that have a national ID service (BankID). There is no way that my Norwegian bank would accept a utility bill as any kind of support of ID. Instead they send a letter to my registered address (national population register) with instructions to take it and my driving license or passport to the post office who will act as a notary and report to the bank that I am the person that the letter is addressed to. From then on BankID (using a one time pad, SIM card, or code generator) can be used to log in to pretty much all banks and government services.

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
k4rli 5y ago
BankID with a digitally signed utility bill should be enough for AML/KYC. I was developing one fintech app recently and I never heard of this requirement.
- kwhitefoot 5y ago
  If I use BankID why would I also need to supply a utility bill? Or are you using the term BankID in some generic sense? BankID is the name of a company that provides a service of the same name: https://www.bankid.no/en/private/ https://www.bankid.no/en/private/
avianlyric 5y ago
Norway is a bit unusual in the way it handles ID. In many parts of the world (including the US & U.K.) the idea of central government holding an accessible database of everyone’s identifies, and mandating participation, is cultural and political suicide. We can argue all day about whether or not this is a good idea. But ultimately, it’s red lines we’ve drawn in the ground, and we’ve decided the trade off (such as identity theft) is worth it. In the U.K. at least, two World Wars have taught us to be wary of central government databases. We’ve seen how they can be abused people in power seeking to persecute part of a population, and even now we’re seeing it again with the U.K.s governments persecution of migrants. At least in the U.K. there are clear and simple guidelines for undoing the damage caused by identity theft. If a bank account or loan was opened in your name, the bank has to close it and write off any losses, and they should compensate you for the trouble. If the mess you around, there’s a number of Ombudsmen and regulators filled with people waiting to take the financial organisation to task and make them really regret their obstinance (I’ve been on the receiving end of their wrath, it’s not much fun). All of this creates very strong incentive for banks to prevent identity theft in the U.K. Unfortunately US consumer protection is lacking in comparison.
- TomSwirly 5y ago
  > In many parts of the world (including the US & U.K.) the idea of central government holding an accessible database of everyone’s identifies, and mandating participation, is cultural and political suicide. That's because the US and the UK are mentally ill cultures actually engaged in cultural and political suicide, so any practical, useful ideas like that are considered suspect. > Unfortunately US consumer protection is lacking in comparison. That's what happens when a whole country decided to mistrust their elected government and instead put their faith in corporations.
- felixhammerl 5y ago
  I find it strange that folks in the US and UK, given that these are championing modern dragnet surveillance, would recoil at the idea of government issued ID, thus forcing everyone to come up with error-prone workarounds enabling identity fraud. As a German, the idea of a bill proving anything at all is just wild.
Aachen 5y ago
> There is no way that my Norwegian bank would accept a utility bill as any kind of support of ID. It's not ID, it's proof of address, separate from proving identity afaik. Mtgox wanted to see ID, but because my ID doesn't say my address they also needed some somewhat official letter addressed to me on this address.
- cywick 5y ago
  Well, it's not really proof of address either because it's so easy to forge, which was OP's main point.

ksec 5y ago

>Dutch banks invented the iDin standard, Oh this is genius! Why aren't others doing it? My guess is that Banks have no incentive to do so? After all Auth and validated personal information is not their business anyway?