5 ms·

And then you've lost all your data cause an SD card was not rated for extreme write endurance. You repeat all that using better SD card or just a cheap PC with

And then you've lost all your data cause an SD card was not rated for extreme write endurance. You repeat all that using better SD card or just a cheap PC with an SSD. You add backups. Then you realize you need to access this setup while away from your home. You add port forwarding. You run an audit to check if the system is secure enough so script-kiddies with a port scanner are not able to access your 'cloud'. Then you realize your router is not so reliable. You add a watchdog which will reboot it once the connection becomes unstable. Then there is a power outage. And if before you could just access all data using 4G on your phone, now you cannot. You add UPS to all critical parts of your home network infrastructure. ... And it goes on and on. It is doable, but doing it well requires a lot of time, planning and resources. It's hardly feasible not only for a lay person but for 'power users' as well.

tomc1985 5y ago
Every step here is illustrated as a worst-case scenario, and omitting the time gaps between issues where the system is operational where you are receiving value from it. Yes self-hosting is a PITA. Yes things will go down. Yes it takes time to learn. But owning the means of your production? Priceless. We need to stop teaching people to be cyber-peasants, sharecropping a land they'll never own.
- saagarjha 5y ago
  Why shouldn’t you look at the worst case scenario? Using a hosted service is valuable too, except in its worst case where they kick you off of it.
  - tomc1985 5y ago
    Because it is not representative of every experience, and without labelling it as such the story given above is mere FUD We should be encouraging self-hosting for those with the risk-tolerance to do so
- maxgashkov 5y ago
  I'm looking at worst cases cause they're really likely to hit you not when you have enough time to tinker and solve it, but when you have other more important things to do. I self-host a lot, including a smart home setup that is not reliant on the cloud, but in the end looking back how much time I've sunk into this and how often it's down due to _my_ mistakes I don't really think it was worth it.
betwixthewires 5y ago
I get it. I self host everything. I'm simplifying, but I'm not naive about it. The problems you say, connection/power downtime are the biggest ones. And they're frustrating, but not near as frustrating as things you paid for going missing, forever. My point though is, if we can get workstations out of the box ready, we can get home servers out of the box ready. The software already exists, the hardware already exists. The problem is not that people don't want it, that they're lazy, that the tools don't exist, the problem is that mobile devices are deliberately built to herd people to these services. Once they're hooked they're hooked. They're fundamentally disempowering.
- robjan 5y ago
  I don't think it's laziness, it's just delegation of a time consuming process. In a similar vein, most of us no longer wash clothes using a washboard, grow our own food etc. Modern society is pretty much built around us not doing everything for ourselves and, as a result, we generally have a better quality of life.
  - betwixthewires 5y ago
    Washing machines are an obvious improvement to washboards though. With the modern service oriented way of listening to music and watching TV, you risk losing what you purchased, you're manipulated by algorithms, you're trapped in the net of a service provider. Is that really less stressful than pulling out a CD and putting it in a CD player? Digital media is better than cassettes. But the service oriented way companies expect us to do it now is not better. We really hit peak digital media with mp3 playing software on our smartphones. Everything since has just made the experience worse.

tomc1985 5y ago

Every step here is illustrated as a worst-case scenario, and omitting the time gaps between issues where the system is operational where you are receiving value from it. Yes self-hosting is a PITA. Yes things will go down. Yes it takes time to learn. But owning the means of your production? Priceless. We need to stop teaching people to be cyber-peasants, sharecropping a land they'll never own.

saagarjha 5y ago
Why shouldn’t you look at the worst case scenario? Using a hosted service is valuable too, except in its worst case where they kick you off of it.
- tomc1985 5y ago
  Because it is not representative of every experience, and without labelling it as such the story given above is mere FUD We should be encouraging self-hosting for those with the risk-tolerance to do so
maxgashkov 5y ago
I'm looking at worst cases cause they're really likely to hit you not when you have enough time to tinker and solve it, but when you have other more important things to do. I self-host a lot, including a smart home setup that is not reliant on the cloud, but in the end looking back how much time I've sunk into this and how often it's down due to _my_ mistakes I don't really think it was worth it.

betwixthewires 5y ago

I get it. I self host everything. I'm simplifying, but I'm not naive about it. The problems you say, connection/power downtime are the biggest ones. And they're frustrating, but not near as frustrating as things you paid for going missing, forever. My point though is, if we can get workstations out of the box ready, we can get home servers out of the box ready. The software already exists, the hardware already exists. The problem is not that people don't want it, that they're lazy, that the tools don't exist, the problem is that mobile devices are deliberately built to herd people to these services. Once they're hooked they're hooked. They're fundamentally disempowering.

robjan 5y ago
I don't think it's laziness, it's just delegation of a time consuming process. In a similar vein, most of us no longer wash clothes using a washboard, grow our own food etc. Modern society is pretty much built around us not doing everything for ourselves and, as a result, we generally have a better quality of life.
- betwixthewires 5y ago
  Washing machines are an obvious improvement to washboards though. With the modern service oriented way of listening to music and watching TV, you risk losing what you purchased, you're manipulated by algorithms, you're trapped in the net of a service provider. Is that really less stressful than pulling out a CD and putting it in a CD player? Digital media is better than cassettes. But the service oriented way companies expect us to do it now is not better. We really hit peak digital media with mp3 playing software on our smartphones. Everything since has just made the experience worse.