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It need not mean your own cloud services, although I think the longterm trend is residential routers plus a USB stick will make this more possible. Eg, he does

It need not mean your own cloud services, although I think the longterm trend is residential routers plus a USB stick will make this more possible. Eg, he doesn't have to make access to all his music so it is contingent on his one credential, which can be revoked at any time by Apple. He can keep local copies of what he has bought, despite the ecosystem tries to make that difficult. Apple Music will delete any local copies it manages when the credential is invalidated. https://www.guidingtech.com/what-happen-when-you-sign-out-apple-id-iphone/ https://www.guidingtech.com/what-happen-when-you-sign-out-ap...

cunthorpe 5y ago
> residential routers plus a USB stick will make this more possible. This smells like "let them eat cake" except in the context of technology. Not everyone is able or even wants to mess with that stuff. There's a vast difference between "Yes, backup my stuff, Apple; Here's my card" and "I know what an IP is" At $12/year you literally cannot get anything like what Apple offers just in terms of backup — not the equipment, not the man hours required to maintain it. Even if I were able to set it all up, it would cost me a huge amount of money in lost revenue just to maintain it safely. It feels like "I could build dropbox in 5 minutes" never stopped.
- mlyle 5y ago
  Maybe read it a bit more generously, in the vein of: * Maybe we can get to a point where running your own services is easy enough and normalized enough that most people do it. I'm doubtful, but there's at least some small winds in that direction-- disillusionment with FAANG, peaking of the large tech economy, some renewed interest in privacy.
  - calsy 5y ago
    Most people use mobile devices and want the ability to watch content anywhere, anytime at press of a play button. That’s the benchmark. No personal hardware setup will match that convenience and people who are not aware of the security risks shouldn’t be hosting their own content from their personal network online.
- betwixthewires 5y ago
  > Not everyone is able or even wants to mess with that stuff. People literally managed books full of CDs or jewel cases, DVD racks, cassette tapes, LP collections, people had an entire rack in their house dedicated to hardware designed explicitly to use these cumbersome things, people torrented and used gnutella and managed software CDs, movie CDs, photo albums, VHS collections and the like just fine for ages. Not everyone is capable of playing MP3s on an PM3 player? Since when? If these new systems that everyone is using is so much more complicated than that that you have to pay a professional service to do it for you, we have royally fucked up somewhere along the way.
  - ashtonkem 5y ago
    > People literally managed books full of CDs or jewel cases, DVD racks, cassette tapes, LP collections, people had an entire rack in their house dedicated to hardware designed explicitly to use these cumbersome things, people torrented and used gnutella and managed software CDs, movie CDs, photo albums, VHS collections and the like just fine for ages. Sounds like you’re trying to generalize from a very small set of people. The percentage of the population that had specialized full sized racks for their torrented stuff and what not was very, very small. For the rest of it, I imagine that “large drawer next to the desk” was the #1 solution, followed up by “in the car somewhere” for music CDs. For the average person, the actual backup procedure from that era was very poor. Frankly, I doubt many did it at all. Even the nerds I knew mostly did a pretty half assed job, all considered. What professional backup software hosted in the cloud today blows even the most thorough technique from any consumer in the 1990s out of the water.
    - betwixthewires 5y ago
      The racks was a reference to entertainment centers, not torrents. That was just about everybody.
  - calsy 5y ago
    Why are we pretending it's the early 2000s? CDs were used because that was the best option at the time obviously. To compare them to services today hosting infinite amounts of LEGAL content streamed over the internet to millions of people on all manner of devices at the touch of a button is rather odd. Likewise, it's weird that you need professionals to build such services? Anything that is so complicated that it requires professionals to create it has fucked up? In other words, every industry that ever existed is fucked up because they require more than a passing knowledge... professionals shouldn't exist.
calsy 5y ago
Routers and USB sticks are the long term trend? How exactly will a USB stick handle apps purchased through the App Store or your subscription to Apple Music? The long term trend is the exact opposite. People don't want to the manage hardware and all the issues of configuration, backups and troubleshooting faults that come with that, just to watch a movie. They want to palm off that responsibility to an external entity.
- FpUser 5y ago
  >"Routers and USB sticks are the long term trend? How exactly will a USB stick handle apps purchased through the App Store" I do not buy apps from app stores. I buy my software from vendors and only perpetual licenses. USB stick well replicated hard drives in my case) work just fine. >"People don't want to the manage hardware..." People were doing it for ages with CDs and DVDs just fine. Learning to backup one drive to another? If this is such a huge mental load then spread your buttocks and let the corps have you here and there. You deserved it.
duskwuff 5y ago
> Apple Music will delete any local copies it manages when the credential is invalidated. No, it doesn't. I literally just tested this. The article you linked to is wrong. (The site looks like a content farm, so this is hardly surprising.) Signing out of an Apple ID will leave any subscription content downloaded from Apple Music present on the device, but unplayable. This is expected -- the user never purchased that music; they only had access to listen to it through their Apple Music subscription. Any other locally stored content belonging to the user remains playable, even if it was downloaded through Apple Music, and the subscription content will become playable if you log back in.
- Brian_K_White 5y ago
  You just said "belonging to the user".
  - duskwuff 5y ago
    Yes. That isn't a contradiction. Let me give an example. Let's say I have an MP3 file, and I added that to my Apple Music library on my desktop computer. Apple Music will make that file downloadable and playable on my phone, and that downloaded file isn't tied to the subscription in any way -- it's literally the same MP3 file that was uploaded. This functionality is an extension of an older feature which Apple called "iTunes Match". On the other hand, if I download an arbitrary track from Apple Music which I didn't put there myself, that downloaded file will no longer be playable if I log out or cancel my subscription -- because those files don't belong to the user.
    - veidr 5y ago
      Are you sure you aren't still signed up for iTunes Match? (I ask because I just happened to notice a $25 annual charge for that the other day... and I was like, oh yeah, I've been paying them all these years to host those 5 CDs I bought at live shows in the 1990s that aren't available on any streaming service...) Update: Like every time this comes to mind, I almost just canceled it, but then I listened to "Track 03" by the band "djiin", purchased at Jasper O'Farrell's pub in Sebastopol, CA in 2002, and I just can't...

cunthorpe 5y ago

> residential routers plus a USB stick will make this more possible. This smells like "let them eat cake" except in the context of technology. Not everyone is able or even wants to mess with that stuff. There's a vast difference between "Yes, backup my stuff, Apple; Here's my card" and "I know what an IP is" At $12/year you literally cannot get anything like what Apple offers just in terms of backup — not the equipment, not the man hours required to maintain it. Even if I were able to set it all up, it would cost me a huge amount of money in lost revenue just to maintain it safely. It feels like "I could build dropbox in 5 minutes" never stopped.

mlyle 5y ago
Maybe read it a bit more generously, in the vein of: * Maybe we can get to a point where running your own services is easy enough and normalized enough that most people do it. I'm doubtful, but there's at least some small winds in that direction-- disillusionment with FAANG, peaking of the large tech economy, some renewed interest in privacy.
- calsy 5y ago
  Most people use mobile devices and want the ability to watch content anywhere, anytime at press of a play button. That’s the benchmark. No personal hardware setup will match that convenience and people who are not aware of the security risks shouldn’t be hosting their own content from their personal network online.
betwixthewires 5y ago
> Not everyone is able or even wants to mess with that stuff. People literally managed books full of CDs or jewel cases, DVD racks, cassette tapes, LP collections, people had an entire rack in their house dedicated to hardware designed explicitly to use these cumbersome things, people torrented and used gnutella and managed software CDs, movie CDs, photo albums, VHS collections and the like just fine for ages. Not everyone is capable of playing MP3s on an PM3 player? Since when? If these new systems that everyone is using is so much more complicated than that that you have to pay a professional service to do it for you, we have royally fucked up somewhere along the way.
- ashtonkem 5y ago
  > People literally managed books full of CDs or jewel cases, DVD racks, cassette tapes, LP collections, people had an entire rack in their house dedicated to hardware designed explicitly to use these cumbersome things, people torrented and used gnutella and managed software CDs, movie CDs, photo albums, VHS collections and the like just fine for ages. Sounds like you’re trying to generalize from a very small set of people. The percentage of the population that had specialized full sized racks for their torrented stuff and what not was very, very small. For the rest of it, I imagine that “large drawer next to the desk” was the #1 solution, followed up by “in the car somewhere” for music CDs. For the average person, the actual backup procedure from that era was very poor. Frankly, I doubt many did it at all. Even the nerds I knew mostly did a pretty half assed job, all considered. What professional backup software hosted in the cloud today blows even the most thorough technique from any consumer in the 1990s out of the water.
  - betwixthewires 5y ago
    The racks was a reference to entertainment centers, not torrents. That was just about everybody.
- calsy 5y ago
  Why are we pretending it's the early 2000s? CDs were used because that was the best option at the time obviously. To compare them to services today hosting infinite amounts of LEGAL content streamed over the internet to millions of people on all manner of devices at the touch of a button is rather odd. Likewise, it's weird that you need professionals to build such services? Anything that is so complicated that it requires professionals to create it has fucked up? In other words, every industry that ever existed is fucked up because they require more than a passing knowledge... professionals shouldn't exist.

calsy 5y ago

Routers and USB sticks are the long term trend? How exactly will a USB stick handle apps purchased through the App Store or your subscription to Apple Music? The long term trend is the exact opposite. People don't want to the manage hardware and all the issues of configuration, backups and troubleshooting faults that come with that, just to watch a movie. They want to palm off that responsibility to an external entity.

FpUser 5y ago
>"Routers and USB sticks are the long term trend? How exactly will a USB stick handle apps purchased through the App Store" I do not buy apps from app stores. I buy my software from vendors and only perpetual licenses. USB stick well replicated hard drives in my case) work just fine. >"People don't want to the manage hardware..." People were doing it for ages with CDs and DVDs just fine. Learning to backup one drive to another? If this is such a huge mental load then spread your buttocks and let the corps have you here and there. You deserved it.

duskwuff 5y ago

> Apple Music will delete any local copies it manages when the credential is invalidated. No, it doesn't. I literally just tested this. The article you linked to is wrong. (The site looks like a content farm, so this is hardly surprising.) Signing out of an Apple ID will leave any subscription content downloaded from Apple Music present on the device, but unplayable. This is expected -- the user never purchased that music; they only had access to listen to it through their Apple Music subscription. Any other locally stored content belonging to the user remains playable, even if it was downloaded through Apple Music, and the subscription content will become playable if you log back in.

Brian_K_White 5y ago
You just said "belonging to the user".
- duskwuff 5y ago
  Yes. That isn't a contradiction. Let me give an example. Let's say I have an MP3 file, and I added that to my Apple Music library on my desktop computer. Apple Music will make that file downloadable and playable on my phone, and that downloaded file isn't tied to the subscription in any way -- it's literally the same MP3 file that was uploaded. This functionality is an extension of an older feature which Apple called "iTunes Match". On the other hand, if I download an arbitrary track from Apple Music which I didn't put there myself, that downloaded file will no longer be playable if I log out or cancel my subscription -- because those files don't belong to the user.
  - veidr 5y ago
    Are you sure you aren't still signed up for iTunes Match? (I ask because I just happened to notice a $25 annual charge for that the other day... and I was like, oh yeah, I've been paying them all these years to host those 5 CDs I bought at live shows in the 1990s that aren't available on any streaming service...) Update: Like every time this comes to mind, I almost just canceled it, but then I listened to "Track 03" by the band "djiin", purchased at Jasper O'Farrell's pub in Sebastopol, CA in 2002, and I just can't...