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As a non-US based individual, I find it fascinating that the news outlets there go out of their way to capitalise all usages of “Black” where it refers to skin

As a non-US based individual, I find it fascinating that the news outlets there go out of their way to capitalise all usages of “Black” where it refers to skin colour, and lowercase any mentions of “white” skin colour. For an outsider, the obsession with race as a primary identity is bizarre. I can’t help but wonder, if you focussed less on how to treat people differently to make up for the past and instead just removed skin colour from the equation, whether a lot of this divisiveness would disappear. Their first appraisal was fine, second one was low, third was fine. Normally, anyone would assume the second was simply a poor appraisal - yet they immediately made it a race issue and sought to generate the conditions to ‘prove’ it. All sounds a bit manufactured, to make a good story and to stir racial tensions.

YeBanKo 5y ago
The US media sees everything exclusive through racial lense. They really condition you to think about race all the time.
- Jansen312 5y ago
  Mostly democrats leaning/control news outlet (even Fox seems very pro democrats these days compare to older days). If you exposed yourself to US media that are not democrats-controlled typically they are more neutral on racial stuff though probably more on conservative and other more controversial topics.
  - skinnymuch 5y ago
    > typically they are more neutral on racial stuff though probably more on conservative and other more controversial topics. What does the end of this mean? If you're talking about conservative sites and they are also not neutral on racial stuff when it comes to conservative topics then that's the same as mainstream media. I don't know of any hard left [bigger] news outlets. There are a number of conservative outlets. They are usually mirror images in terms of caring about race as mainstream media. Check CRT or Rittenhouse + Andrew Coffee coverage as quick recent examples. The primary difference will be the conservative outlets saying they don't care about race. The actual behavior does not show that though.
  - YeBanKo 5y ago
    How do you expose yourself to non-democrat controlled media that is local to San Francisco?
- narrator 5y ago
  The mainstream media's job is to create and reinforce narratives. There are millions of newsworthy things going on in the world and only those things that help prove certain narratives are reported. Same goes for the interviews with "random" people on the street. They interview a lot of people, but only if the answer matches the narrative they are trying to push is it aired.
karpierz 5y ago
"Black" =/= "black". "Black" refers to a group of people who are lumped together for how they're perceived/treated in (American/western) society. "black" refers to materials which don't reflect visible light.
- hdjjhhvvhga 5y ago
  This doesn't explain the non-existence of White. They are perceived and treated in a certain way in the American society.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
- sholladay 5y ago
  The parent of your comment is not confused about the difference between people who are Black and the color black. They are referring to the inconsistency in the media wherein stories that discuss race will typically have uppercase "B" in "Black", yet lowercase "w" in "white", where they both refer to a specific group of people. One could argue that, for the sake of consistency, they should both be capitalized or not, yet it is indeed unusual to see capitalized "White" in the media, as in, "The White community" or "A White teenager". It is more common to see "The white community" or "A white teenager". However, it's perfectly normal to see "The Black community" or "A Black teenager". And that's aside from how often each group is mentioned in the media.
  - theklr 5y ago
    Because white is not a race, it’s used as a counterculture to the use of Black (previously also Negro and Afro), and historical evidence supports that. “Black” is only used as an identifier by that ethic group and their erasure of ethic identity. While African American is another term, within the culture of the of the group, it’s lacking once more an actual origin and lumps those who do actually know their African origins with those who don’t, leading to the premise of the self-codified ethic term Black. This term has been preferred by the National Association of Black Journalist since 2017 and was picked up by major newspapers and the AP only last year.
golemotron 5y ago
Is English becoming German-ified? Capitalization of nouns and the high (they) vs low (him/her) dialects?
okwubodu 5y ago
It refers to a specific group of people with some shared culture in the same way Polish, American, Asian, and Californian would. As for the second paragraph, I noticed there was a difference between the way teachers treated me and other students that looked like me before I even knew there was a word for it. It’s hard to remove it from the equation when it keeps being forced back in.
- 2muchcoffeeman 5y ago
  Asians have a shared culture? Excuse me? Americans use "Black" the same way most of the world uses "Asian". As a sloppy catch all. If you want a sloppy catch all, then you should use "White" as well.
  - okwubodu 5y ago
    That’s the point. It’s a made up term arbitrarily bunching subgroups together. It’s not relevant in countries where being Black, Latino, Asian, etc. isn’t an outlier. But, I guess you can use White if you want, who’s going to stop you?
    - boardwaalk 5y ago
      Well, no one is going to /stop/ you, but somebody is going to think you’re a white supremacist. And I don’t think it would be a rare response.
      - dude187 5y ago
        I've had no shortage of the leftists in my life saying directly "White Supremacy is _everywhere_". They absolutely will take evidence of things like race agnostic capitalization as somehow being evidence of "white supremacy". Just look at the "open letter" signed by 1,288 "public health professionals" (https://archive.md/v8ehj https://archive.md/v8ehj) which demand an unequal response to the "protests". Demanding strict condemnation of "white protesters resisting stay-home orders" which "are also rooted in white nationalism and run contrary to respect for Black lives."
hindsightbias 5y ago
How are minorities treated in your country?
tsol 5y ago
Yes and no. There certainly is a focus on race, but the argument is that it's in response to a historical focus on race. African Americans are in large part of here because of their race-- specifically because of the view that it makes them inferior 'workhorses'. Even after abolition, Jim Crow laws and similar measures make it difficult to just ignore race when in fact it's clear large portions of the population are not willing to do that. Op article is a great example. There's still a discrepancy in treatment. I'm not convinced that is caused by the capitalization of Black by the media so much as the other way around. But the media being the media-- manufacturing stories people want to read may play a part. Although that can be said about.. well just about everything. If it's true, it's still important to me
- dude187 5y ago
  This article is a perfect example of the modern approach to race. The accusations of "racism" are not real, created from thin air. Which are then used to divide the population and spread hate.
  - skinnymuch 5y ago
    That is true. The parent of the comment you replied to is also a perfect example of modern approach to race. Not dissimilar to all the fighting against CRT.
    - dude187 5y ago
      CRT is a real problem, and works to revitalize and amplify bigotry and hate.
      - skinnymuch 5y ago
        Of course people like you believe that. You’re proving the point. Please, define CRT for me. Please explain how the founding fathers who didn’t give black peoples or women much if any rights, did not then view the world and base what they did on that thinking. Unfortunately this proves the point. People like you largely want the status quo to remain. Sometimes people will even, without a shred of awareness or irony, quote MLK while espousing this stuff.
nemo44x 5y ago
Some people decided to differentiate someone that “happens to be black” from someone “that is Black”. The idea is that being Black is political and why a conservative person that happens to have black skin is not Black. This type of codes language also helps people determine if you’re an “ally” or outsider. In essence things like race have been vertically integrated into every facet of culture outside of traditional politics possible. From elementary school to media companies to corporate diversity statements to Hollywood movies - an efficient (and remarkable really) propaganda machine. It is integrated into institutions which gives the most radical and militant a safe place to retreat to for cover.
- aiisjustanif 5y ago
  Any proof to back up these statements?
  - nemo44x 5y ago
    Read the work of Kimberlé Crenshaw and bell hooks - they clearly define the difference between “am Black” vs “happen to be black”. Why do I have to do the work for you when you can’t be bothered to be aware of the world you live in?
    - dude187 5y ago
      > Why do I have to do the work for you when you can’t be bothered to be aware of the world you live in? It's just another form of the social media derived "[citation needed]" thought terminating cliche. Any time someone either doesn't feel like a topic should be discussed, or that your point isn't even worth addressing, can just silence you by suddenly requiring you to speak through someone else. Original thought, open debate and honest inquisition is no longer allowed!
      - nemo44x 5y ago
        It's amazing that people can't be bothered to even read a summary of the last 60 years of civil rights and social justice movements - the good, the bad and the ugly. It's like they stop at 1964 and just forget all the movements and groups that have come and gone and morphed into other things, etc. It's difficult for some to see the difference between the formal meaning (yay diversity!) and real meaning (so-and-so gets resources because of their race) of politics and issues.
boardwaalk 5y ago
The white vs Black thing is weird. I’ve seen both used within the same sentence, so using it in the same context (whether that be culture or skin color or whatever). I’m curious if there’s an actual style guide out there that mentions this and what rationale is given.
- theklr 5y ago
  There is an AP guideline established that clarified the use of the capitalized Black in reporting: https://apnews.com/article/race-and-ethnicity-us-news-business-ap-top-news-racial-injustice-71386b46dbff8190e71493a763e8f45a https://apnews.com/article/race-and-ethnicity-us-news-busine...
  - dude187 5y ago
    A perfect example of institutionalized racism.
    - aiisjustanif 5y ago
      Where this imply any superiority?
      - dude187 5y ago
        Use your eyes and your brain.
        aiisjustanif 5y ago
        Figure out what institutional racism is first before criticizing.
ykevinator2 5y ago
Not sure if you have George Floyd incidents where you live, but half of America is still super racist. While this is probably a little hyperbolized, it's definitely a thing.
- walkhour 5y ago
  > but half of America is still super racist Citation needed. Also, can you name other countries as diverse as America which are less racist?
  - skinnymuch 5y ago
    How would you get citation on something many people don't and won't want to admit to? If they even know they are a bigot at all? How many Americans are against CRT for a solid reason that doesn't become hypocritical immediately. Vs the amount who are against CRT for purely identity and other no substance reasons. The fact that CRT is even a big "thing" at all is a major issue in and of itself. Would it be better if the OP said 1/3 of America? Or would saying even 10% of Americans are racist require citation? > Also, can you name other countries as diverse as America which are less racist? What is the relation of the first part of your comment and this? I don't think there is a country like that. It doesn't change many people in those countries and in America from being racist.
    - walkhour 5y ago
      > How would you get citation on something many people don't and won't want to admit to? That's upon who makes the claims you make. You should have clarified you didn't have a source and you were guessing, other people may take it seriously. > What is the relation of the first part of your comment and this? It's relevant in order to put into context how racist USA is, you're telling for it's diversity, this is the least racist nation you can think of?
- dude187 5y ago
  > half of America is still super racist. Not in the way race peddlers would have you believe. The problem is overblown, and used to manipulate and control.
skinnymuch 5y ago
> non-US based There is a common theme of people based in homogenous societies finding American race behavior out of place. At best there's places like the UK. Which is still a far cry from the diversity and size of the US. > I can’t help but wonder, if you focussed less on how to treat people differently to make up for the past and instead just removed skin colour from the equation, whether a lot of this divisiveness would disappear. When do you cut off the past? Would you say 75-100+ years is too long ago? So we should let go of the insane murdering and pillaging of places like Tulsa and North Carolina by white supremacists. Is 5, 10 or 20 years ago okay to be upset about? Can't enact this sort of behavior if there can't even be agreement on can't agree on this, > if you focussed less on how to treat people differently to make up for the past "make up for the past" has never really happened. If every part of the 2nd paragraph is divisive, it is hard to imagine it would stop divisiveness.
dragonwriter 5y ago
> I find it fascinating that the news outlets there go out of their way to capitalise all usages of “Black” where it refers to skin colour, and lowercase any mentions of “white” skin colour. No, they capitalize Black when it refers to a racial identity group (which only very loosely relates to skin color.)
- bad_username 5y ago
  "This white person's racial identity is Black", or "let me research this black person to verify their racial identity is indeed Black before I capitize the word", - thought no reporter ever. This is nonsense. It's all about the color today, like in the bad old times.
  - dragonwriter 5y ago
    > It's all about the color today, like in the bad old times. No, its about identity forged largely in shared experience of White racism now, and in the bad old days (and for the racists that haven't left those days still) it was (and is) about ancestry, not color. The older racist rules specified a specific degree of African descent below which a free person of mixed descent was considered White (at various times in various US jurisdictions, this might be anywhere from 1/4 to 1/16), while later (mostly in the Jim Crow era) many jurisdictions adopted a “one drop rule”.

YeBanKo 5y ago

The US media sees everything exclusive through racial lense. They really condition you to think about race all the time.

Jansen312 5y ago
Mostly democrats leaning/control news outlet (even Fox seems very pro democrats these days compare to older days). If you exposed yourself to US media that are not democrats-controlled typically they are more neutral on racial stuff though probably more on conservative and other more controversial topics.
- skinnymuch 5y ago
  > typically they are more neutral on racial stuff though probably more on conservative and other more controversial topics. What does the end of this mean? If you're talking about conservative sites and they are also not neutral on racial stuff when it comes to conservative topics then that's the same as mainstream media. I don't know of any hard left [bigger] news outlets. There are a number of conservative outlets. They are usually mirror images in terms of caring about race as mainstream media. Check CRT or Rittenhouse + Andrew Coffee coverage as quick recent examples. The primary difference will be the conservative outlets saying they don't care about race. The actual behavior does not show that though.
- YeBanKo 5y ago
  How do you expose yourself to non-democrat controlled media that is local to San Francisco?
narrator 5y ago
The mainstream media's job is to create and reinforce narratives. There are millions of newsworthy things going on in the world and only those things that help prove certain narratives are reported. Same goes for the interviews with "random" people on the street. They interview a lot of people, but only if the answer matches the narrative they are trying to push is it aired.

karpierz 5y ago

"Black" =/= "black". "Black" refers to a group of people who are lumped together for how they're perceived/treated in (American/western) society. "black" refers to materials which don't reflect visible light.

hdjjhhvvhga 5y ago
This doesn't explain the non-existence of White. They are perceived and treated in a certain way in the American society.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
sholladay 5y ago
The parent of your comment is not confused about the difference between people who are Black and the color black. They are referring to the inconsistency in the media wherein stories that discuss race will typically have uppercase "B" in "Black", yet lowercase "w" in "white", where they both refer to a specific group of people. One could argue that, for the sake of consistency, they should both be capitalized or not, yet it is indeed unusual to see capitalized "White" in the media, as in, "The White community" or "A White teenager". It is more common to see "The white community" or "A white teenager". However, it's perfectly normal to see "The Black community" or "A Black teenager". And that's aside from how often each group is mentioned in the media.
- theklr 5y ago
  Because white is not a race, it’s used as a counterculture to the use of Black (previously also Negro and Afro), and historical evidence supports that. “Black” is only used as an identifier by that ethic group and their erasure of ethic identity. While African American is another term, within the culture of the of the group, it’s lacking once more an actual origin and lumps those who do actually know their African origins with those who don’t, leading to the premise of the self-codified ethic term Black. This term has been preferred by the National Association of Black Journalist since 2017 and was picked up by major newspapers and the AP only last year.

golemotron 5y ago

Is English becoming German-ified? Capitalization of nouns and the high (they) vs low (him/her) dialects?

okwubodu 5y ago

It refers to a specific group of people with some shared culture in the same way Polish, American, Asian, and Californian would. As for the second paragraph, I noticed there was a difference between the way teachers treated me and other students that looked like me before I even knew there was a word for it. It’s hard to remove it from the equation when it keeps being forced back in.

2muchcoffeeman 5y ago
Asians have a shared culture? Excuse me? Americans use "Black" the same way most of the world uses "Asian". As a sloppy catch all. If you want a sloppy catch all, then you should use "White" as well.
- okwubodu 5y ago
  That’s the point. It’s a made up term arbitrarily bunching subgroups together. It’s not relevant in countries where being Black, Latino, Asian, etc. isn’t an outlier. But, I guess you can use White if you want, who’s going to stop you?
  - boardwaalk 5y ago
    Well, no one is going to /stop/ you, but somebody is going to think you’re a white supremacist. And I don’t think it would be a rare response.
    - dude187 5y ago
      I've had no shortage of the leftists in my life saying directly "White Supremacy is _everywhere_". They absolutely will take evidence of things like race agnostic capitalization as somehow being evidence of "white supremacy". Just look at the "open letter" signed by 1,288 "public health professionals" (https://archive.md/v8ehj https://archive.md/v8ehj) which demand an unequal response to the "protests". Demanding strict condemnation of "white protesters resisting stay-home orders" which "are also rooted in white nationalism and run contrary to respect for Black lives."

hindsightbias 5y ago

How are minorities treated in your country?

tsol 5y ago

Yes and no. There certainly is a focus on race, but the argument is that it's in response to a historical focus on race. African Americans are in large part of here because of their race-- specifically because of the view that it makes them inferior 'workhorses'. Even after abolition, Jim Crow laws and similar measures make it difficult to just ignore race when in fact it's clear large portions of the population are not willing to do that. Op article is a great example. There's still a discrepancy in treatment. I'm not convinced that is caused by the capitalization of Black by the media so much as the other way around. But the media being the media-- manufacturing stories people want to read may play a part. Although that can be said about.. well just about everything. If it's true, it's still important to me

dude187 5y ago
This article is a perfect example of the modern approach to race. The accusations of "racism" are not real, created from thin air. Which are then used to divide the population and spread hate.
- skinnymuch 5y ago
  That is true. The parent of the comment you replied to is also a perfect example of modern approach to race. Not dissimilar to all the fighting against CRT.
  - dude187 5y ago
    CRT is a real problem, and works to revitalize and amplify bigotry and hate.
    - skinnymuch 5y ago
      Of course people like you believe that. You’re proving the point. Please, define CRT for me. Please explain how the founding fathers who didn’t give black peoples or women much if any rights, did not then view the world and base what they did on that thinking. Unfortunately this proves the point. People like you largely want the status quo to remain. Sometimes people will even, without a shred of awareness or irony, quote MLK while espousing this stuff.

nemo44x 5y ago

Some people decided to differentiate someone that “happens to be black” from someone “that is Black”. The idea is that being Black is political and why a conservative person that happens to have black skin is not Black. This type of codes language also helps people determine if you’re an “ally” or outsider. In essence things like race have been vertically integrated into every facet of culture outside of traditional politics possible. From elementary school to media companies to corporate diversity statements to Hollywood movies - an efficient (and remarkable really) propaganda machine. It is integrated into institutions which gives the most radical and militant a safe place to retreat to for cover.

aiisjustanif 5y ago
Any proof to back up these statements?
- nemo44x 5y ago
  Read the work of Kimberlé Crenshaw and bell hooks - they clearly define the difference between “am Black” vs “happen to be black”. Why do I have to do the work for you when you can’t be bothered to be aware of the world you live in?
  - dude187 5y ago
    > Why do I have to do the work for you when you can’t be bothered to be aware of the world you live in? It's just another form of the social media derived "[citation needed]" thought terminating cliche. Any time someone either doesn't feel like a topic should be discussed, or that your point isn't even worth addressing, can just silence you by suddenly requiring you to speak through someone else. Original thought, open debate and honest inquisition is no longer allowed!
    - nemo44x 5y ago
      It's amazing that people can't be bothered to even read a summary of the last 60 years of civil rights and social justice movements - the good, the bad and the ugly. It's like they stop at 1964 and just forget all the movements and groups that have come and gone and morphed into other things, etc. It's difficult for some to see the difference between the formal meaning (yay diversity!) and real meaning (so-and-so gets resources because of their race) of politics and issues.

boardwaalk 5y ago

The white vs Black thing is weird. I’ve seen both used within the same sentence, so using it in the same context (whether that be culture or skin color or whatever). I’m curious if there’s an actual style guide out there that mentions this and what rationale is given.

theklr 5y ago
There is an AP guideline established that clarified the use of the capitalized Black in reporting: https://apnews.com/article/race-and-ethnicity-us-news-business-ap-top-news-racial-injustice-71386b46dbff8190e71493a763e8f45a https://apnews.com/article/race-and-ethnicity-us-news-busine...
- dude187 5y ago
  A perfect example of institutionalized racism.
  - aiisjustanif 5y ago
    Where this imply any superiority?
    - dude187 5y ago
      Use your eyes and your brain.
      - aiisjustanif 5y ago
        Figure out what institutional racism is first before criticizing.

ykevinator2 5y ago

Not sure if you have George Floyd incidents where you live, but half of America is still super racist. While this is probably a little hyperbolized, it's definitely a thing.

walkhour 5y ago
> but half of America is still super racist Citation needed. Also, can you name other countries as diverse as America which are less racist?
- skinnymuch 5y ago
  How would you get citation on something many people don't and won't want to admit to? If they even know they are a bigot at all? How many Americans are against CRT for a solid reason that doesn't become hypocritical immediately. Vs the amount who are against CRT for purely identity and other no substance reasons. The fact that CRT is even a big "thing" at all is a major issue in and of itself. Would it be better if the OP said 1/3 of America? Or would saying even 10% of Americans are racist require citation? > Also, can you name other countries as diverse as America which are less racist? What is the relation of the first part of your comment and this? I don't think there is a country like that. It doesn't change many people in those countries and in America from being racist.
  - walkhour 5y ago
    > How would you get citation on something many people don't and won't want to admit to? That's upon who makes the claims you make. You should have clarified you didn't have a source and you were guessing, other people may take it seriously. > What is the relation of the first part of your comment and this? It's relevant in order to put into context how racist USA is, you're telling for it's diversity, this is the least racist nation you can think of?
dude187 5y ago
> half of America is still super racist. Not in the way race peddlers would have you believe. The problem is overblown, and used to manipulate and control.

skinnymuch 5y ago

> non-US based There is a common theme of people based in homogenous societies finding American race behavior out of place. At best there's places like the UK. Which is still a far cry from the diversity and size of the US. > I can’t help but wonder, if you focussed less on how to treat people differently to make up for the past and instead just removed skin colour from the equation, whether a lot of this divisiveness would disappear. When do you cut off the past? Would you say 75-100+ years is too long ago? So we should let go of the insane murdering and pillaging of places like Tulsa and North Carolina by white supremacists. Is 5, 10 or 20 years ago okay to be upset about? Can't enact this sort of behavior if there can't even be agreement on can't agree on this, > if you focussed less on how to treat people differently to make up for the past "make up for the past" has never really happened. If every part of the 2nd paragraph is divisive, it is hard to imagine it would stop divisiveness.

dragonwriter 5y ago

> I find it fascinating that the news outlets there go out of their way to capitalise all usages of “Black” where it refers to skin colour, and lowercase any mentions of “white” skin colour. No, they capitalize Black when it refers to a racial identity group (which only very loosely relates to skin color.)

bad_username 5y ago
"This white person's racial identity is Black", or "let me research this black person to verify their racial identity is indeed Black before I capitize the word", - thought no reporter ever. This is nonsense. It's all about the color today, like in the bad old times.
- dragonwriter 5y ago
  > It's all about the color today, like in the bad old times. No, its about identity forged largely in shared experience of White racism now, and in the bad old days (and for the racists that haven't left those days still) it was (and is) about ancestry, not color. The older racist rules specified a specific degree of African descent below which a free person of mixed descent was considered White (at various times in various US jurisdictions, this might be anywhere from 1/4 to 1/16), while later (mostly in the Jim Crow era) many jurisdictions adopted a “one drop rule”.