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I think a better metaphor to gun control is "trying to make physics illegal". This is because you can ban people from buying guns. But you certainly won't be a

I think a better metaphor to gun control is "trying to make physics illegal". This is because you can ban people from buying guns. But you certainly won't be able to stop people from creating their own weapons. Obviously too little people have the capability, but yes, then can. With bitcoin is more complicated, because trying to control self-custody is basically trying to ban maths. All you need is an internet connection and some google to find software capable of self-custody. Hell, you can do that with excel if you really want to. So, as hard as trying to ban math.

Grustaf 5y ago
Haha yes, banning physics is the perfect metaphor here!
littlestymaar 5y ago
> With bitcoin is more complicated, because trying to control self-custody is basically trying to ban maths. All you need is an internet connection and some google to find software capable of self-custody. Hell, you can do that with excel if you really want to. That would be a shame if the software you downloaded stole the coins from you wouldn't it? Or if your ECDSA implementation in Excel contained a typo and you lost everything. The only reason cryptography ban in the 90s failed was because everybody in the business world needed to have access to strong crypto for to use security reasons. If people had to roll their own crypto, the NSA cryptanalysts would have had a really fun time because almost all of them would have been utterly broken.
- lowkey 5y ago
  > The only reason cryptography ban in the 90s failed was because everybody in the business world needed to have access to strong crypto for to use security reasons. If people had to roll their own crypto, the NSA cryptanalysts would have had a really fun time because almost all of them would have been utterly broken. You wouldn’t really need to roll your own crypto to post transactions to the Bitcoin network, a Bitcoin hash is basically sha256 done twice. Bitcoin uses much the same cryptography that most banks, ssl certs and other internet cryptography use. Unless you plan to memory hole the entire topic of sha256 and bitcoin hash algorithms, it seems unlikely that any government operating on the premise of a citizenry with the right to free speech, could prevent it.
  - littlestymaar 5y ago
    > Hell, you can do that with excel if you really want to. Looks like the parent was talking about rolling its own crypto, isn't it?
boublepop 5y ago
Its also illegal to make weapons yourself. “You can’t prevent it” is a silly standpoint to argue from. Should you make it legal for American school children to shoot their classmates simply because apparently the country can’t prevent it? No of cause not. Crypto isn’t just math, and it’s subject to law just like everything else.
- laverya 5y ago
  > Its also illegal to make weapons yourself. Where? Not in the USA. And jstark, the guy who made the FGC-9, was rather conspicuously a resident of Germany [0], so it's not like making self-manufacture of firearms illegal made it impossible for him to do so. 0: https://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2021/10/12/jstark-passes-away-following-police-raid/ https://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2021/10/12/jstark-passes...
  - Grustaf 5y ago
    The link seems to disprove your point, the police raided his house.
    - reginold 5y ago
      The point above was that even in the case of making something illegal, it doesn't stop people from physically doing it. In the USA it is legal to make your own guns. > The Legal Framework for Individuals: Making a firearm for personal use is legal. Making a firearm for personal use without a federal manufacturing license is legal. This has always been the case, even after the enactment of the Gun Control Act of 1968 ("GCA"). http://freedomblog.skylarklaw.com/2014/10/is-making-firearm-in-your-home-legal.html?m=1 http://freedomblog.skylarklaw.com/2014/10/is-making-firearm-... Interesting that this came up in a thread about Bitcoin.
      - Grustaf 5y ago
        > The point above was that even in the case of making something illegal, it doesn't stop people from physically doing it. Well, that’s precisely my point. You typically don’t ban anything by physically preventing people from doing it.

Grustaf 5y ago

Haha yes, banning physics is the perfect metaphor here!

littlestymaar 5y ago

> With bitcoin is more complicated, because trying to control self-custody is basically trying to ban maths. All you need is an internet connection and some google to find software capable of self-custody. Hell, you can do that with excel if you really want to. That would be a shame if the software you downloaded stole the coins from you wouldn't it? Or if your ECDSA implementation in Excel contained a typo and you lost everything. The only reason cryptography ban in the 90s failed was because everybody in the business world needed to have access to strong crypto for to use security reasons. If people had to roll their own crypto, the NSA cryptanalysts would have had a really fun time because almost all of them would have been utterly broken.

lowkey 5y ago
> The only reason cryptography ban in the 90s failed was because everybody in the business world needed to have access to strong crypto for to use security reasons. If people had to roll their own crypto, the NSA cryptanalysts would have had a really fun time because almost all of them would have been utterly broken. You wouldn’t really need to roll your own crypto to post transactions to the Bitcoin network, a Bitcoin hash is basically sha256 done twice. Bitcoin uses much the same cryptography that most banks, ssl certs and other internet cryptography use. Unless you plan to memory hole the entire topic of sha256 and bitcoin hash algorithms, it seems unlikely that any government operating on the premise of a citizenry with the right to free speech, could prevent it.
- littlestymaar 5y ago
  > Hell, you can do that with excel if you really want to. Looks like the parent was talking about rolling its own crypto, isn't it?

boublepop 5y ago

Its also illegal to make weapons yourself. “You can’t prevent it” is a silly standpoint to argue from. Should you make it legal for American school children to shoot their classmates simply because apparently the country can’t prevent it? No of cause not. Crypto isn’t just math, and it’s subject to law just like everything else.

laverya 5y ago
> Its also illegal to make weapons yourself. Where? Not in the USA. And jstark, the guy who made the FGC-9, was rather conspicuously a resident of Germany [0], so it's not like making self-manufacture of firearms illegal made it impossible for him to do so. 0: https://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2021/10/12/jstark-passes-away-following-police-raid/ https://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2021/10/12/jstark-passes...
- Grustaf 5y ago
  The link seems to disprove your point, the police raided his house.
  - reginold 5y ago
    The point above was that even in the case of making something illegal, it doesn't stop people from physically doing it. In the USA it is legal to make your own guns. > The Legal Framework for Individuals: Making a firearm for personal use is legal. Making a firearm for personal use without a federal manufacturing license is legal. This has always been the case, even after the enactment of the Gun Control Act of 1968 ("GCA"). http://freedomblog.skylarklaw.com/2014/10/is-making-firearm-in-your-home-legal.html?m=1 http://freedomblog.skylarklaw.com/2014/10/is-making-firearm-... Interesting that this came up in a thread about Bitcoin.
    - Grustaf 5y ago
      > The point above was that even in the case of making something illegal, it doesn't stop people from physically doing it. Well, that’s precisely my point. You typically don’t ban anything by physically preventing people from doing it.