6 ms·

Why is the onus on employees to "find another job," instead on their managers to improve the labor conditions? Some of the stories on that sub are an incredibl

Why is the onus on employees to "find another job," instead on their managers to improve the labor conditions? Some of the stories on that sub are an incredible indictment on how wage workers are treated. I don't care what decisions that person made to end up in a minimum wage job, but I do care that they get treated with some respect and dignity.

GhettoComputers 5y ago
The same reason why people move. Relying on others to do everything to benefit you is wishful but deluded. If you care, what are you doing to improve their conditions? Would you like to be that manager or are you currently doing that? It isn’t bad to be that way, but who is willing to put in that work?
- sosborn 5y ago
  > Relying on others to do everything to benefit you is wishful but deluded. Isn't that exactly what these companies and managers are doing when they exploit workers?
  - GhettoComputers 5y ago
    Is it working?
    - sosborn 5y ago
      For whom?
- bpfrh 5y ago
  We rely on the restaurant not serving bad food because of regulation. We rely on good safety standards in a workplace, so that people working in chemical factories do not die from breathing in toxic fumes. So to be clear, we rely on other people and other people doing things for us all the time, so the discussion is not about relying on other people, but in this case what are work conditions which are acceptable. I think that fire at will for example is a bad idea, but I don't live in the USA, so my view comes from a different perspective.
  - GhettoComputers 5y ago
    Having eaten in countries with no safety regulations for food, I doubt those regulations are beneficial for anyone and only hurt poor entrepreneurs. I’ve also eaten plenty of illegal elote with no regulations in the US, I’m still alive. OSHA regulation is like the EU, some of it is ridiculous and nobody follows it. An example of both is Casu martzu, politics destroying culture.
    - lovich 5y ago
      In the event that you’re unaware. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Jungle https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Jungle The food regulations in the US didn’t spring unexpectedly and wholly formed from the minds of politicians like some legal Athena. They were in response to actual, documented issues with food preparation. They are explicitly beneficial for the populace unless you think getting food poisoning commonly is a good thing
      - GhettoComputers 5y ago
        I read the jungle and I know about it. I initially agreed, the conditions were terrible. But even without regulations people make rational decisions like not eat at restaurants that make them sick and not buying Chinese baby milk products even before regulation, post regulation hasn’t stopped them from buying America baby formula either. If you think we need the government to stop people eating at cockroach infested buildings, you’re ignoring common sense. Do we need the FDA to decide marijuana has no medical value, or that people were too stupid and only ate rank food that caused them illness with no ability to eat food that wasn’t sickening before the FDA saved everyone?
        sosborn 5y ago
        > not eat at restaurants that make them sick Or, you know, not have restaurants that make people sick. > not buying Chinese baby milk products even before regulation What makes you think baby milk in whatever country you live in would be better without regulation? Do you think that maybe lack of regulation/enforcement is why Chinese baby milk contributed to that particular scandal?
- trs8080 5y ago
  marching in the streets, calling local politicians, organizing in my community. not everyone is selfish and some folks work hard to push society forward.
  - GhettoComputers 5y ago
    So walking in the street expecting your actions to make other people do it?
- malermeister 5y ago
  Congratulations, you've just discovered the point of unions. Employers won't give you what you want if you just ask for it. But it's not deluded to think you can get it anyways. Through industrial action and worker solidarity you can force their hand, get what you want and change society for the better.
kkjjkgjjgg 5y ago
Because nobody owns anybody else a job. The proper reaction if somebody makes you a bad proposal is to reject it. Plain and simple.
- dorchadas 5y ago
  If nobody owes anybody else a job, why are they required to live then? > The proper reaction if somebody makes you a bad proposal is to reject it. Plain and simple. What luxury you must have to be able to reject a job. Not everyone has that luxury.
  - kkjjkgjjgg 5y ago
    "If nobody owes anybody else a job, why are they required to live then?" Have you tried thinking about that question? Lots of interesting aspects would come to light. Maybe there was a time when food just grew into people's mouth. But eventually there were too many people, so they had to resort to actively hunting and gathering stuff to feed everybody (a ka work). So I guess you should blame people having babies for having to work.
    - dorchadas 5y ago
      You're missing the entire point, which is that people don't have options because not everyone is privileged enough to be able to take time off to look for a job, or go any time without a paycheck. Also, a lot of the work with growing food could easily be scaled back and done by people with plenty of time to spare for their own lives, or even partially automated. We're already quite a lot more efficient than before. There's no reason we have to have people suffer shit jobs just to live.
      - kkjjkgjjgg 5y ago
        Some people don't have jobs to begin with. I really don't know what you are going on about. Who is supposed to create a job for you, just because you need one? As for the "Bullshit Jobs" theory, yes a couple of farmers can produce a lot of food. People don't only need food, though. What are you going on about, you seem to be implying there should be a basic income? Or what is the alternative to working you envision? That has not been proven to be workable yet. And somebody will still have to do the work.

GhettoComputers 5y ago

The same reason why people move. Relying on others to do everything to benefit you is wishful but deluded. If you care, what are you doing to improve their conditions? Would you like to be that manager or are you currently doing that? It isn’t bad to be that way, but who is willing to put in that work?

sosborn 5y ago
> Relying on others to do everything to benefit you is wishful but deluded. Isn't that exactly what these companies and managers are doing when they exploit workers?
- GhettoComputers 5y ago
  Is it working?
  - sosborn 5y ago
    For whom?
bpfrh 5y ago
We rely on the restaurant not serving bad food because of regulation. We rely on good safety standards in a workplace, so that people working in chemical factories do not die from breathing in toxic fumes. So to be clear, we rely on other people and other people doing things for us all the time, so the discussion is not about relying on other people, but in this case what are work conditions which are acceptable. I think that fire at will for example is a bad idea, but I don't live in the USA, so my view comes from a different perspective.
- GhettoComputers 5y ago
  Having eaten in countries with no safety regulations for food, I doubt those regulations are beneficial for anyone and only hurt poor entrepreneurs. I’ve also eaten plenty of illegal elote with no regulations in the US, I’m still alive. OSHA regulation is like the EU, some of it is ridiculous and nobody follows it. An example of both is Casu martzu, politics destroying culture.
  - lovich 5y ago
    In the event that you’re unaware. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Jungle https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Jungle The food regulations in the US didn’t spring unexpectedly and wholly formed from the minds of politicians like some legal Athena. They were in response to actual, documented issues with food preparation. They are explicitly beneficial for the populace unless you think getting food poisoning commonly is a good thing
    - GhettoComputers 5y ago
      I read the jungle and I know about it. I initially agreed, the conditions were terrible. But even without regulations people make rational decisions like not eat at restaurants that make them sick and not buying Chinese baby milk products even before regulation, post regulation hasn’t stopped them from buying America baby formula either. If you think we need the government to stop people eating at cockroach infested buildings, you’re ignoring common sense. Do we need the FDA to decide marijuana has no medical value, or that people were too stupid and only ate rank food that caused them illness with no ability to eat food that wasn’t sickening before the FDA saved everyone?
      - sosborn 5y ago
        > not eat at restaurants that make them sick Or, you know, not have restaurants that make people sick. > not buying Chinese baby milk products even before regulation What makes you think baby milk in whatever country you live in would be better without regulation? Do you think that maybe lack of regulation/enforcement is why Chinese baby milk contributed to that particular scandal?
trs8080 5y ago
marching in the streets, calling local politicians, organizing in my community. not everyone is selfish and some folks work hard to push society forward.
- GhettoComputers 5y ago
  So walking in the street expecting your actions to make other people do it?
malermeister 5y ago
Congratulations, you've just discovered the point of unions. Employers won't give you what you want if you just ask for it. But it's not deluded to think you can get it anyways. Through industrial action and worker solidarity you can force their hand, get what you want and change society for the better.

kkjjkgjjgg 5y ago

Because nobody owns anybody else a job. The proper reaction if somebody makes you a bad proposal is to reject it. Plain and simple.

dorchadas 5y ago
If nobody owes anybody else a job, why are they required to live then? > The proper reaction if somebody makes you a bad proposal is to reject it. Plain and simple. What luxury you must have to be able to reject a job. Not everyone has that luxury.
- kkjjkgjjgg 5y ago
  "If nobody owes anybody else a job, why are they required to live then?" Have you tried thinking about that question? Lots of interesting aspects would come to light. Maybe there was a time when food just grew into people's mouth. But eventually there were too many people, so they had to resort to actively hunting and gathering stuff to feed everybody (a ka work). So I guess you should blame people having babies for having to work.
  - dorchadas 5y ago
    You're missing the entire point, which is that people don't have options because not everyone is privileged enough to be able to take time off to look for a job, or go any time without a paycheck. Also, a lot of the work with growing food could easily be scaled back and done by people with plenty of time to spare for their own lives, or even partially automated. We're already quite a lot more efficient than before. There's no reason we have to have people suffer shit jobs just to live.
    - kkjjkgjjgg 5y ago
      Some people don't have jobs to begin with. I really don't know what you are going on about. Who is supposed to create a job for you, just because you need one? As for the "Bullshit Jobs" theory, yes a couple of farmers can produce a lot of food. People don't only need food, though. What are you going on about, you seem to be implying there should be a basic income? Or what is the alternative to working you envision? That has not been proven to be workable yet. And somebody will still have to do the work.