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And you don't seem to understand the magnitude of the productivity increase we've seen, even after the industrial revolution. And yet wages have not been keepin

And you don't seem to understand the magnitude of the productivity increase we've seen, even after the industrial revolution. And yet wages have not been keeping up with inflation, because this is all in servitude to wasteful diversity in consumer goods, setting lower prices (that only in some categories offset inflation) and a lot of bullshit jobs. Sure, we need work, but with a different mode of production we wouldn't have stopped at 8 hours when reclaiming time for other things that can be equally or more productive, especially now.

daenz 5y ago
This is the reason I am generally for the anti-work movement even though I am largely against the individual reasons motivating it. I think there is real negotiating power that has been unrealized by the working class and they are just starting to exercise them. But I think they should use that negotiating power to get better deals for themselves not destroy capitalism.
kkjjkgjjgg 5y ago
The number of people in employment has increased by a lot, so the absolute wage payout has in fact risen a lot.
- lovich 5y ago
  And so has the absolute amount of living expenses? Absolute payout values don’t make sense when looking at growth patterns between two entities
  - kkjjkgjjgg 5y ago
    Employers don't determine the living expenses.
- dymk 5y ago
  Per-capita wages are obviously the metric we’re talking about, and what matters when it comes to putting roofs over heads.
  - kkjjkgjjgg 5y ago
    People don't employ other people to put roofs over their heads, but because they have work that needs to be done. Why don't you put a roof over the head of somebody in need?
rsj_hn 5y ago
> And yet wages have not been keeping up with inflation, Hmm. Over the last year, real wages declined by about 1%, but that's the inevitable result of our covid policies. Look, you tell a bunch of people to stay home and not work, so that means there aren't going to be as many real goods and services produced. Now the government chose a (reasonable) policy of mailing out checks to people, which does keep them employed, but it just means prices will go up, since at the end of the day real wages do need to fall if people are not producing as much as they used to. There is no way getting around that. People complain about the inflation but they don't really understand the alternatives. But I think the covid stuff is special, and you need to be careful of using the last two years in a benchmark when talking about long term trends. Long term, real wages have been increasing, and it's just false to say that they haven't: https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/LES1252881600Q https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/LES1252881600Q > because this is all in servitude to wasteful diversity in consumer goods, setting lower prices (that only in some categories offset inflation) and a lot of bullshit jobs. These are some pretty bold claims that require some statistical evidence to support. Unfortunately everyone has a lot of strong opinions about the economy, but very few are willing to invest the time into testing their hypotheses, or even doing something like a basic cross country analysis.
aww_dang 5y ago
I agree that wages haven't kept pace with productivity gains. However, proposed solutions such as increased costs, regulations and further currency devaluation won't get us there. They are the causes rather than the solutions.

daenz 5y ago

This is the reason I am generally for the anti-work movement even though I am largely against the individual reasons motivating it. I think there is real negotiating power that has been unrealized by the working class and they are just starting to exercise them. But I think they should use that negotiating power to get better deals for themselves not destroy capitalism.

kkjjkgjjgg 5y ago

The number of people in employment has increased by a lot, so the absolute wage payout has in fact risen a lot.

lovich 5y ago
And so has the absolute amount of living expenses? Absolute payout values don’t make sense when looking at growth patterns between two entities
- kkjjkgjjgg 5y ago
  Employers don't determine the living expenses.
dymk 5y ago
Per-capita wages are obviously the metric we’re talking about, and what matters when it comes to putting roofs over heads.
- kkjjkgjjgg 5y ago
  People don't employ other people to put roofs over their heads, but because they have work that needs to be done. Why don't you put a roof over the head of somebody in need?

rsj_hn 5y ago

> And yet wages have not been keeping up with inflation, Hmm. Over the last year, real wages declined by about 1%, but that's the inevitable result of our covid policies. Look, you tell a bunch of people to stay home and not work, so that means there aren't going to be as many real goods and services produced. Now the government chose a (reasonable) policy of mailing out checks to people, which does keep them employed, but it just means prices will go up, since at the end of the day real wages do need to fall if people are not producing as much as they used to. There is no way getting around that. People complain about the inflation but they don't really understand the alternatives. But I think the covid stuff is special, and you need to be careful of using the last two years in a benchmark when talking about long term trends. Long term, real wages have been increasing, and it's just false to say that they haven't: https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/LES1252881600Q https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/LES1252881600Q > because this is all in servitude to wasteful diversity in consumer goods, setting lower prices (that only in some categories offset inflation) and a lot of bullshit jobs. These are some pretty bold claims that require some statistical evidence to support. Unfortunately everyone has a lot of strong opinions about the economy, but very few are willing to invest the time into testing their hypotheses, or even doing something like a basic cross country analysis.

aww_dang 5y ago

I agree that wages haven't kept pace with productivity gains. However, proposed solutions such as increased costs, regulations and further currency devaluation won't get us there. They are the causes rather than the solutions.