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In virtually the entire developed world outside the US, holiday pay is a given. In some countries like Switzerland you literally need to apply to the governmen

In virtually the entire developed world outside the US, holiday pay is a given. In some countries like Switzerland you literally need to apply to the government for permission to work Sundays.

ger768 5y ago
I worked many jobs here in US and they all had holiday pay. So if I worked I would get paid 1.5x and if I didn't work I would still get paid as if I did. Not supporting the idea that anyone is entitled to this, but saying it is not uncommon. I think it is regional within the US and maybe depends if you are hourly or salary based.
- lotsofpulp 5y ago
  It depends on how deep the employer's pockets are and what supply and demand looks like for the type of labor. Fast food workers, small retail businesses, franchised hotels, all do not typically get holiday pay. Generally, the lower the income, the lower the chance of holiday pay.
- denton-scratch 5y ago
  That seems unfair. If you get paid time-off, then that is paid at your normal rate of pay, and you don't have to work for it. If you work one day during your PTO, then surely that work should be compensated at your daily rate of pay, in addition to your pay for time-off. Why should you work a day at half-pay? So working during paid time-off should be compensated at double-time. Time-and-a-half was customary in the UK for overtime, in the days of trades unions. The opportunity to work overtime was prized, and in fact sometimes workers would "go slow" during normal time, to ensure there was enough work left for overtime. Nobody worked normal hours that included public holidays, so those hours were compensated at double time. Christmas Day would sometimes command triple-time.
bradleyjg 5y ago
How about Japan?
- hdjjhhvvhga 5y ago
  Japan is a Karōshi country, it's in a completely different league. Several of my Japanese friends openly say they are not happy. The pressure of the society is enormous and it's practically impossible to resist. The traditional roles are still very strong and do cause problems for daughters (and probably to their fathers, although they are not allowed to admit that). Many things are twisted in an unhealthy way.
  - bradleyjg 5y ago
    It’s not accurate to say “virtually the entire developed world outside the US” if Japan doesn’t qualify. Japan is the second largest developed nation by population and economic output. If someone means “white countries” they ought to say that.
    - hdjjhhvvhga 5y ago
      Yes, I agree - it would be more correct to say “virtually the entire developed world outside the US and Japan.” I don't believe mixing skin color adds anything to the conversation except maybe the fact that a lot of labor abuse is happening in Asia in general. But Japan is very special because you don't need to work yourself to death in order to survive, but to fit in and don't fail the expectations of everybody around you.
      - bradleyjg 5y ago
        The US and Japan are about half the developed world. I don’t think the virtually … except formula gives the correct impression given that fact.
        hdjjhhvvhga 5y ago
        OK, let;s put it differently. In terms of paid holidays per year, the USA is on a par with Argentina and two African countries: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_minimum_annual_leave_by_country https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_minimum_annual_leave_b... This is of course great for people like Bezos and Musk, but terrible for the society at large.
brutus1213 5y ago
Early in my career, I worked in the USA for a top tier employer in a PhD level position (not a manager then).It was a full-time position, which I believe is exempt from over time. Worked a 12 hour day on thxgiving when something stupid happened (due to lack of management foresight). Wasn't just me but others too. Got a gift card in appreciation for 50 bucks or something. No overtime/extra pay. Time off in lieu was a joke as we were working like crazy and barely able to utilize owed PTO (which you could not cash out). This episode prompted me to put the feelers out to switch jobs, which I then did. As a manager, I now push back hard on behalf of my team when I see unrealistic deadlines (especially around holiday times). This year, I had to fight a lot more than usual. The issue is success is required on a stupid timeline. Or else. I keep feeling I'm playing russian roulette with my job. But I reflect on my past experiences and think I'll be okay if I get kicked out. So .. cest la vie .. I'll do what I think is right.
- jdavis703 5y ago
  In CA at least, not being able to cash out non-expired, accruable PTO is wage theft.
  - tharkun__ 5y ago
    I don't know about you but I don't want my PTO to even be able to be cashed out. I'd rather have 30 days of PTO required by law and the company gets dinged for not letting me take it. The US seems to have a culture of overwork where even being able to just get the PTO paid out feeds that's cycle. Work 80 hour weeks or you are shunned by the co-workers. Want to take some PTO? Nah, just get it paid out man! We have to break that cycle.
    - jdavis703 5y ago
      I’d rather take the cash today and stash it for savings tomorrow. I’m highly skeptical SWE will pay well when I’m ready to retire in 29 years.
  - varelse 5y ago
    Which is why some companies pivoted to "unlimited time off" so you never accrue any official PTO and it's up to you to make sure you take any time off whatsoever. And just like open office floor plans, they portrayed this cost saving measure as a perk. Once you understand how this game works, you know to follow the money first. Edit: Guess the truth hurts... https://www.shrm.org/resourcesandtools/hr-topics/employee-relations/pages/unlimited-vacation-is-it-about-morale-or-the-bottom-line.aspx https://www.shrm.org/resourcesandtools/hr-topics/employee-re...
knorker 5y ago
I have never worked in the US, if that helps at all. But i have worked in multiple other countries. Like I said they definitely should, but no this is absolutely not another example of everyone but the US doing the right thing. So no, you are wrong. I've never worked in Switzerland, so you may be right about that. But we both know Switzerland is not representative.

In virtually the entire developed world outside the US, holiday pay is a given. In some countries like Switzerland you literally need to apply to the government for permission to work Sundays.

ger768 5y ago

I worked many jobs here in US and they all had holiday pay. So if I worked I would get paid 1.5x and if I didn't work I would still get paid as if I did. Not supporting the idea that anyone is entitled to this, but saying it is not uncommon. I think it is regional within the US and maybe depends if you are hourly or salary based.

lotsofpulp 5y ago
It depends on how deep the employer's pockets are and what supply and demand looks like for the type of labor. Fast food workers, small retail businesses, franchised hotels, all do not typically get holiday pay. Generally, the lower the income, the lower the chance of holiday pay.
denton-scratch 5y ago
That seems unfair. If you get paid time-off, then that is paid at your normal rate of pay, and you don't have to work for it. If you work one day during your PTO, then surely that work should be compensated at your daily rate of pay, in addition to your pay for time-off. Why should you work a day at half-pay? So working during paid time-off should be compensated at double-time. Time-and-a-half was customary in the UK for overtime, in the days of trades unions. The opportunity to work overtime was prized, and in fact sometimes workers would "go slow" during normal time, to ensure there was enough work left for overtime. Nobody worked normal hours that included public holidays, so those hours were compensated at double time. Christmas Day would sometimes command triple-time.

bradleyjg 5y ago

How about Japan?

hdjjhhvvhga 5y ago
Japan is a Karōshi country, it's in a completely different league. Several of my Japanese friends openly say they are not happy. The pressure of the society is enormous and it's practically impossible to resist. The traditional roles are still very strong and do cause problems for daughters (and probably to their fathers, although they are not allowed to admit that). Many things are twisted in an unhealthy way.
- bradleyjg 5y ago
  It’s not accurate to say “virtually the entire developed world outside the US” if Japan doesn’t qualify. Japan is the second largest developed nation by population and economic output. If someone means “white countries” they ought to say that.
  - hdjjhhvvhga 5y ago
    Yes, I agree - it would be more correct to say “virtually the entire developed world outside the US and Japan.” I don't believe mixing skin color adds anything to the conversation except maybe the fact that a lot of labor abuse is happening in Asia in general. But Japan is very special because you don't need to work yourself to death in order to survive, but to fit in and don't fail the expectations of everybody around you.
    - bradleyjg 5y ago
      The US and Japan are about half the developed world. I don’t think the virtually … except formula gives the correct impression given that fact.
      - hdjjhhvvhga 5y ago
        OK, let;s put it differently. In terms of paid holidays per year, the USA is on a par with Argentina and two African countries: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_minimum_annual_leave_by_country https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_minimum_annual_leave_b... This is of course great for people like Bezos and Musk, but terrible for the society at large.

brutus1213 5y ago

Early in my career, I worked in the USA for a top tier employer in a PhD level position (not a manager then).It was a full-time position, which I believe is exempt from over time. Worked a 12 hour day on thxgiving when something stupid happened (due to lack of management foresight). Wasn't just me but others too. Got a gift card in appreciation for 50 bucks or something. No overtime/extra pay. Time off in lieu was a joke as we were working like crazy and barely able to utilize owed PTO (which you could not cash out). This episode prompted me to put the feelers out to switch jobs, which I then did. As a manager, I now push back hard on behalf of my team when I see unrealistic deadlines (especially around holiday times). This year, I had to fight a lot more than usual. The issue is success is required on a stupid timeline. Or else. I keep feeling I'm playing russian roulette with my job. But I reflect on my past experiences and think I'll be okay if I get kicked out. So .. cest la vie .. I'll do what I think is right.

jdavis703 5y ago
In CA at least, not being able to cash out non-expired, accruable PTO is wage theft.
- tharkun__ 5y ago
  I don't know about you but I don't want my PTO to even be able to be cashed out. I'd rather have 30 days of PTO required by law and the company gets dinged for not letting me take it. The US seems to have a culture of overwork where even being able to just get the PTO paid out feeds that's cycle. Work 80 hour weeks or you are shunned by the co-workers. Want to take some PTO? Nah, just get it paid out man! We have to break that cycle.
  - jdavis703 5y ago
    I’d rather take the cash today and stash it for savings tomorrow. I’m highly skeptical SWE will pay well when I’m ready to retire in 29 years.
- varelse 5y ago
  Which is why some companies pivoted to "unlimited time off" so you never accrue any official PTO and it's up to you to make sure you take any time off whatsoever. And just like open office floor plans, they portrayed this cost saving measure as a perk. Once you understand how this game works, you know to follow the money first. Edit: Guess the truth hurts... https://www.shrm.org/resourcesandtools/hr-topics/employee-relations/pages/unlimited-vacation-is-it-about-morale-or-the-bottom-line.aspx https://www.shrm.org/resourcesandtools/hr-topics/employee-re...

knorker 5y ago

I have never worked in the US, if that helps at all. But i have worked in multiple other countries. Like I said they definitely should, but no this is absolutely not another example of everyone but the US doing the right thing. So no, you are wrong. I've never worked in Switzerland, so you may be right about that. But we both know Switzerland is not representative.