3 ms·

>The problem with this discussion is that (presumably) neither of us will ever have the data to back up our position. [...] I have no trouble believing that the

by jasode 5y ago

>The problem with this discussion is that (presumably) neither of us will ever have the data to back up our position. [...] I have no trouble believing that these legitimately bad, long-tail, high downvote count videos exist, but I still see them as exactly what my original comment characterized them as: an edge case. Because the public dislike counts are now gone, examples are hard to find. In any case, here's a screen shot of a popular video from The Verge that's not long-tail. The deep link showing 1200-dislikes-vs-839-likes: https://youtu.be/WuunLhXcUo4?t=15 https://youtu.be/WuunLhXcUo4?t=15 That's an example of a high "dislikes ratio" alerting the viewer to a trash video. Lots of bad videos with corresponding dislikes on Youtube are not an edge case. I encounter them every day (e.g. product reviews, DIY how-to, etc) >, but you aren't going to convince me you're right just by telling me that the way I use YouTube is wrong. If you're happy using Youtube without considering dislikes, we're not saying you're wrong. The point is that your dismissal of public dislikes is not relevant to how _others_ depend on it to avoid wasting time. The examples of famous youtube creators also looking at dislike counts to save time is very telling. Even though they themselves suffer from dislikes on their own channel, they still depend on dislike counts when consuming others' videos. The youtube creators are also some of the most sophisticated viewers of Youtube content and their usage of dislikes ratios matches the reality of many in this thread who use the metrics in the same way to filter out bad videos.

caconym_ 5y ago
This is all well and good, but—again—what you aren't addressing is the (claimed) negative effects of visible downvote counts, mainly (as I understand it) spurious downvote brigades against relatively small/vulnerable creators. These use cases you and others (claim to) care about so much must be weighed against the (claimed) damage done by continuing to support them, so it's not just a question of live and let live. When downvote brigades are brought up, the first response is always something along the lines of "all engagement is good" and "downvotes aren't a negative signal in the algorithm", the thrust being that downvotes don't actually hurt creators and they're just being a bunch of crybabies. But it is, frankly, totally incoherent to claim this and then turn around and also claim that downvotes are an important signal for deciding which videos to not watch. I hope you can see the contradiction there. I point this out, and the next claim they trot out is "downvote brigades are rare to the point of being insignificant". To which I say, well, prove it. Prove it, show me the data, and make the case to me that saving X man-hours of wasted time watching unworthy how-to videos is worth crushing Y creators' nascent careers.

by jasode 5y ago

caconym_ 5y ago

This is all well and good, but—again—what you aren't addressing is the (claimed) negative effects of visible downvote counts, mainly (as I understand it) spurious downvote brigades against relatively small/vulnerable creators. These use cases you and others (claim to) care about so much must be weighed against the (claimed) damage done by continuing to support them, so it's not just a question of live and let live. When downvote brigades are brought up, the first response is always something along the lines of "all engagement is good" and "downvotes aren't a negative signal in the algorithm", the thrust being that downvotes don't actually hurt creators and they're just being a bunch of crybabies. But it is, frankly, totally incoherent to claim this and then turn around and also claim that downvotes are an important signal for deciding which videos to not watch. I hope you can see the contradiction there. I point this out, and the next claim they trot out is "downvote brigades are rare to the point of being insignificant". To which I say, well, prove it. Prove it, show me the data, and make the case to me that saving X man-hours of wasted time watching unworthy how-to videos is worth crushing Y creators' nascent careers.