15 ms·

I don't really follow the world of PWAs, what is Apple doing to cripple them on iOS?

alfonsodev 5y ago
this is 2020[1] state but you can make an idea, the most important one in my opinion is the friction that exists to add the app to the app list of your phone, you can't do it programatically is the user who has to go through the menus of iOS, it makes imposible to have a nice Web App Store and that's the biggest barrier for mass adoption in my opinion. - [1] https://simplabs.com/blog/2020/06/10/the-state-of-pwa-support-on-mobile-and-desktop-in-2020/ https://simplabs.com/blog/2020/06/10/the-state-of-pwa-suppor...
- The_rationalist 5y ago
  The thing is, Ionic has none of those issues
dbetteridge 5y ago
Can only use Apples JS engine on iOS and they limit things like push notifications and background workers. Makes it difficult to get the full 'App' experience people expect
fakename11 5y ago
OP probably wants site to be to send notifications even though Firefox’s research on the topic has shown that they are 99+ percent spam. I find it very annoying when I visit a site and there's an annoying pop-up asking for notifications (even though chrome and firefox block most automatically). The Mozilla study showed that sites already try and show 100s of billion notifications to users a year "Notification prompts are very unpopular. On Release, about 99% of notification prompts go unaccepted, with 48% being actively denied by the user." https://blog.mozilla.org/futurereleases/2019/11/04/restricting-notification-permission-prompts-in-firefox/ https://blog.mozilla.org/futurereleases/2019/11/04/restricti... I also would bet that most acceptance clicks by users were accidental.
- 2Gkashmiri 5y ago
  yes. go and check a regular friends' chrome browser. notifications left and right, constant irritant of "breaking news" and "check this out" from essentially spam sites. i am grateful of preventing notifications by default
- k__ 5y ago
  Nobody cares about notifications. It's all about the shitty browser storage on iOS.
  - mavhc 5y ago
    Pretty sure I want to know when I have a new message
  - realusername 5y ago
    Yeah if Safari wouldn't break localStorage or indexDB every other version, that would work better already and a nice start.
- tehbeard 5y ago
  There is nothing stopping Firefox from saying x,y and z APIs are considered dangerous and web app only, and gating them behind the PWA install prompt. I want Apple to do this as well to put pressure on google to fix their shit with letting these run rampant on the web.
- pygy_ 5y ago
  Notifications from Web sites are spam. Web apps that can be made resident on your phone home screen are another story, where notifications may be legitimate (e.g. chat apps).
  - blowski 5y ago
    Notifications from websites that I don't want to receive are spam. Perhaps it's a webapp where I communicate with friends, and want to be notified.
- 5y ago
rubyist5eva 5y ago
Apple deliberately cripples like, like notifications and workers - so that you have to wrap your PWA in an "app" for those features and distribute it on the App Store - with all the "fun" stuff that comes along with that.
agust 5y ago
Their Safari browser, running on WebKit, is full of bugs and lagging behind in features such as Push Notifications, Install prompts for Web Apps, and many many others. It makes it impossible to have quality Web Apps running through Safari. This wouldn't be a problem if users could use other browsers that are not that buggy and have the features needed to build native-like app experience. But Apple is banning any other browser from using their own engine, they are all forced to use the buggy and lagging behind WebKit. Firefox, Edge, Chrome, etc on iOS are just skins around WebKit. So there is basically no browser competition on iOS, and this is how Apple prevent web apps from competing with native apps.
- phaer 5y ago
  Isn't that case somehow similar to how Microsoft used to bundle IE with Windows? iOS isn't a monopoly such as Windows was, but you could use another browser engine on Windows and you can't on iOS. Shouldn't that at least worry antitrust legislators in the EU and/or the US?
  - julianlam 5y ago
    No, not at all. In Windows you can install any other browser you want (even if it ships with IE default). On iOS, ALL browsers are forced to used Safari's rendering engine. It would be like installing Firefox and it uses Trident in the background.
    - IggleSniggle 5y ago
      The poster you are responding to is saying the same thing, but also referencing the huge judgement that Microsoft faced for pre-installing Internet Explorer / making it the default browser. They’re saying that while the situation isn’t completely analogous, that what Apple is doing is far more egregious than what Microsoft already faced massive judgement for doing.
      - phaer 5y ago
        Exactly, thanks for clarifying - I've been afk :)
adam12 5y ago
One thing that really bothers me is that there is no install prompt for a PWA on iOS. Users have to be told to find the install button which is buried in a menu.
- donmcronald 5y ago
  I would also like to have it, but I can see how it could become a spam issue. Every garbage site on the planet would start pushing PWAs to get on a users home screen. It would be the same thing if notifications were reserved for PWA installs only and not in the browser. That's one area where the app stores are pretty good. If you open the app store, you want to install apps. The same can't be said for a website. I think the only way it would work really well is if the add to home screen / install button was prominent in the browser chrome and sites could trigger some effect if they can be installed as a PWA. For example, change from an inactive button to an active button.
  - adam12 5y ago
    I'm not sure how it could be abused. The api doesn't allow the developer initiate the install prompt.
    - nyuszika7h 5y ago
      They can just trigger the prompt when you scroll the website or something, that counts as a user gesture.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]

this is 2020[1] state but you can make an idea, the most important one in my opinion is the friction that exists to add the app to the app list of your phone, you can't do it programatically is the user who has to go through the menus of iOS, it makes imposible to have a nice Web App Store and that's the biggest barrier for mass adoption in my opinion. - [1] https://simplabs.com/blog/2020/06/10/the-state-of-pwa-support-on-mobile-and-desktop-in-2020/ https://simplabs.com/blog/2020/06/10/the-state-of-pwa-suppor...

The_rationalist 5y ago
The thing is, Ionic has none of those issues

dbetteridge 5y ago

Can only use Apples JS engine on iOS and they limit things like push notifications and background workers. Makes it difficult to get the full 'App' experience people expect

fakename11 5y ago

OP probably wants site to be to send notifications even though Firefox’s research on the topic has shown that they are 99+ percent spam. I find it very annoying when I visit a site and there's an annoying pop-up asking for notifications (even though chrome and firefox block most automatically). The Mozilla study showed that sites already try and show 100s of billion notifications to users a year "Notification prompts are very unpopular. On Release, about 99% of notification prompts go unaccepted, with 48% being actively denied by the user." https://blog.mozilla.org/futurereleases/2019/11/04/restricting-notification-permission-prompts-in-firefox/ https://blog.mozilla.org/futurereleases/2019/11/04/restricti... I also would bet that most acceptance clicks by users were accidental.

2Gkashmiri 5y ago
yes. go and check a regular friends' chrome browser. notifications left and right, constant irritant of "breaking news" and "check this out" from essentially spam sites. i am grateful of preventing notifications by default
k__ 5y ago
Nobody cares about notifications. It's all about the shitty browser storage on iOS.
- mavhc 5y ago
  Pretty sure I want to know when I have a new message
- realusername 5y ago
  Yeah if Safari wouldn't break localStorage or indexDB every other version, that would work better already and a nice start.
tehbeard 5y ago
There is nothing stopping Firefox from saying x,y and z APIs are considered dangerous and web app only, and gating them behind the PWA install prompt. I want Apple to do this as well to put pressure on google to fix their shit with letting these run rampant on the web.
pygy_ 5y ago
Notifications from Web sites are spam. Web apps that can be made resident on your phone home screen are another story, where notifications may be legitimate (e.g. chat apps).
- blowski 5y ago
  Notifications from websites that I don't want to receive are spam. Perhaps it's a webapp where I communicate with friends, and want to be notified.
5y ago

rubyist5eva 5y ago

Apple deliberately cripples like, like notifications and workers - so that you have to wrap your PWA in an "app" for those features and distribute it on the App Store - with all the "fun" stuff that comes along with that.

agust 5y ago

Their Safari browser, running on WebKit, is full of bugs and lagging behind in features such as Push Notifications, Install prompts for Web Apps, and many many others. It makes it impossible to have quality Web Apps running through Safari. This wouldn't be a problem if users could use other browsers that are not that buggy and have the features needed to build native-like app experience. But Apple is banning any other browser from using their own engine, they are all forced to use the buggy and lagging behind WebKit. Firefox, Edge, Chrome, etc on iOS are just skins around WebKit. So there is basically no browser competition on iOS, and this is how Apple prevent web apps from competing with native apps.

phaer 5y ago
Isn't that case somehow similar to how Microsoft used to bundle IE with Windows? iOS isn't a monopoly such as Windows was, but you could use another browser engine on Windows and you can't on iOS. Shouldn't that at least worry antitrust legislators in the EU and/or the US?
- julianlam 5y ago
  No, not at all. In Windows you can install any other browser you want (even if it ships with IE default). On iOS, ALL browsers are forced to used Safari's rendering engine. It would be like installing Firefox and it uses Trident in the background.
  - IggleSniggle 5y ago
    The poster you are responding to is saying the same thing, but also referencing the huge judgement that Microsoft faced for pre-installing Internet Explorer / making it the default browser. They’re saying that while the situation isn’t completely analogous, that what Apple is doing is far more egregious than what Microsoft already faced massive judgement for doing.
    - phaer 5y ago
      Exactly, thanks for clarifying - I've been afk :)

adam12 5y ago

One thing that really bothers me is that there is no install prompt for a PWA on iOS. Users have to be told to find the install button which is buried in a menu.

donmcronald 5y ago
I would also like to have it, but I can see how it could become a spam issue. Every garbage site on the planet would start pushing PWAs to get on a users home screen. It would be the same thing if notifications were reserved for PWA installs only and not in the browser. That's one area where the app stores are pretty good. If you open the app store, you want to install apps. The same can't be said for a website. I think the only way it would work really well is if the add to home screen / install button was prominent in the browser chrome and sites could trigger some effect if they can be installed as a PWA. For example, change from an inactive button to an active button.
- adam12 5y ago
  I'm not sure how it could be abused. The api doesn't allow the developer initiate the install prompt.
  - nyuszika7h 5y ago
    They can just trigger the prompt when you scroll the website or something, that counts as a user gesture.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]