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The evidence presented in this video isn't anywhere near enough to confirm that this is actually true, yet you're already offering up speculative explanations a

The evidence presented in this video isn't anywhere near enough to confirm that this is actually true, yet you're already offering up speculative explanations about google's intentions as if it's all a foregone conclusion and you know exactly why. I think that's a little weird.

beerandt 5y ago
When it comes to censorship, I think at best it doesn't really matter why, and at worst it's fair to assume mal intent, even if it's not obvious or provable. Otherwise (and without an affirmative reason), why hide it? That's the nature of censorship. But especially so when the "alpha testing" is specifically done on videos of the new White House administration. Unless you're questioning whether removing the downvotes qualifies as censorship at all. Which I would find a little weird. What hypothetical "pure" intentions would you suggest are possibilities?
- root_axis 5y ago
  > When it comes to censorship, I think at best it doesn't really matter why Your "censorship" framing is just a speculative assumption. There is no proof that censorship is going on here. > What hypothetical "pure" intentions would you suggest are possibilities? There are billions of comments on YouTube and anyone who actually works in software understands that software very often does things that the programmers didn't intend, and I'm not even talking about ML which is literally statistically applied logic, i.e. the wrong thing happening is inevitably assured and assumed from the start. This whole argument is moot anyway, there's no commercial incentive to hire a legion of moderators because for all that extra money spent they'd simply be accused of bias even if the moderation was actually fair, a statistic of which there is literally no trusted party to arbiter.
  - beerandt 5y ago
    I'm taking about hiding downvotes and selectively disabling comments. (Ignoring for now the selective hiding of particular comments or blacklisted words) That's hiding information that's normally available due to the nature of the content. That's censorship.
- apple4ever 5y ago
  Bingo. Censorship opens the door to all of these questions. Censorship is bad, even if done for the right reasons.
ddingus 5y ago
Who says we are constrained to this video? This matter is a running conversation.
- root_axis 5y ago
  If you can present evidence that YouTube is deleting comments that criticize the removal of the dislike button then I'll retract my skepticism of your comment and endorse it myself. From my perspective, there is a least considerable evidence that what you're saying is not true, consider for just one example, the entire comment section on the very video this thread is about.
  - sieabah 5y ago
    Here you go https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=43wp_EUk2ho https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=43wp_EUk2ho
    - root_axis 5y ago
      Check the comment section of that video.
      - ddingus 5y ago
        For what? Burden is on you here, due to your position in the conversation. What are we looking for? Why does it matter?
        root_axis 5y ago
        The entire comment section is full of comments criticizing the removal of the dislike button.
        ddingus 5y ago
        Yeah? I see 'em. Have seen them elsewhere too. I didn't see anyone saying ALL comments were being removed, did you? Now, before we go farther down this road, there is a lot going on. YT, and others, are doing many things to nudge, bias, favor, some speech over other speech. Not all of those make sense. Some are offensive. Others make sense. These actions in general, and the low transparency related to them, as well as some overt and excessive actions, bans, demonetization, etc... are very highly objectionable. That's where I am at on it. And I'm going to stay there, until such time as the burden I put up thread is met in a compelling way. Some are saying these things are just unfortunate artifacts from necessary actions, I do not agree. Cheers, I've got other things to do, but I did enjoy this conversation. You've the last word, and I'll read with interest.

beerandt 5y ago

When it comes to censorship, I think at best it doesn't really matter why, and at worst it's fair to assume mal intent, even if it's not obvious or provable. Otherwise (and without an affirmative reason), why hide it? That's the nature of censorship. But especially so when the "alpha testing" is specifically done on videos of the new White House administration. Unless you're questioning whether removing the downvotes qualifies as censorship at all. Which I would find a little weird. What hypothetical "pure" intentions would you suggest are possibilities?

root_axis 5y ago
> When it comes to censorship, I think at best it doesn't really matter why Your "censorship" framing is just a speculative assumption. There is no proof that censorship is going on here. > What hypothetical "pure" intentions would you suggest are possibilities? There are billions of comments on YouTube and anyone who actually works in software understands that software very often does things that the programmers didn't intend, and I'm not even talking about ML which is literally statistically applied logic, i.e. the wrong thing happening is inevitably assured and assumed from the start. This whole argument is moot anyway, there's no commercial incentive to hire a legion of moderators because for all that extra money spent they'd simply be accused of bias even if the moderation was actually fair, a statistic of which there is literally no trusted party to arbiter.
- beerandt 5y ago
  I'm taking about hiding downvotes and selectively disabling comments. (Ignoring for now the selective hiding of particular comments or blacklisted words) That's hiding information that's normally available due to the nature of the content. That's censorship.
apple4ever 5y ago
Bingo. Censorship opens the door to all of these questions. Censorship is bad, even if done for the right reasons.

ddingus 5y ago

Who says we are constrained to this video? This matter is a running conversation.

root_axis 5y ago
If you can present evidence that YouTube is deleting comments that criticize the removal of the dislike button then I'll retract my skepticism of your comment and endorse it myself. From my perspective, there is a least considerable evidence that what you're saying is not true, consider for just one example, the entire comment section on the very video this thread is about.
- sieabah 5y ago
  Here you go https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=43wp_EUk2ho https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=43wp_EUk2ho
  - root_axis 5y ago
    Check the comment section of that video.
    - ddingus 5y ago
      For what? Burden is on you here, due to your position in the conversation. What are we looking for? Why does it matter?
      - root_axis 5y ago
        The entire comment section is full of comments criticizing the removal of the dislike button.
        ddingus 5y ago
        Yeah? I see 'em. Have seen them elsewhere too. I didn't see anyone saying ALL comments were being removed, did you? Now, before we go farther down this road, there is a lot going on. YT, and others, are doing many things to nudge, bias, favor, some speech over other speech. Not all of those make sense. Some are offensive. Others make sense. These actions in general, and the low transparency related to them, as well as some overt and excessive actions, bans, demonetization, etc... are very highly objectionable. That's where I am at on it. And I'm going to stay there, until such time as the burden I put up thread is met in a compelling way. Some are saying these things are just unfortunate artifacts from necessary actions, I do not agree. Cheers, I've got other things to do, but I did enjoy this conversation. You've the last word, and I'll read with interest.