38 ms·

For me personally, it is 500km range under bad conditions, i.e., 120km/h speed and in winter. Alternatively 300km range added in about 15mins. Make such a stop

by sveme 5y ago

For me personally, it is 500km range under bad conditions, i.e., 120km/h speed and in winter. Alternatively 300km range added in about 15mins. Make such a stop after three hours anyway.

speedgoose 5y ago
You forgot to say that you need to pull a boat on a trailer and that you go uphill both ways. As they say, if an electric car can't do that, then they are not viable to anyone.
- ianai 5y ago
  Right. The current 300 mile target is fine for cities or more dense regions. But I routinely drive around 250 miles with large uphills regions in weather that requires AC. The uphill parts are like a 2x range cost compared with the rest.
  - speedgoose 5y ago
    And you drive that much without taking a break?
    - peoplefromibiza 5y ago
      250 miles without breaks is not a big challenge. I routinely drove 400-500 kms without stopping when I toured Europe. Once on the highway you only have to go straight, anybody can do that. The only secret is to not make it a strict rule, if you feel like stopping, just stop.
      - speedgoose 5y ago
        It's actually unsafe. You have never been exposed to the communication campaign about taking breaks for safety ? You for example can see signs about this on the French motorways.
        peoplefromibiza 5y ago
        it's unsafe if you don't stop when you feel the need to stop. Also: never drive long distances alone. I worked as a roadie in the music business, and I would never put in danger the 5-6 sometimes 9 people I had in the van with me, with all the equipment. I just drive at a regular pace around 100 kms/h and use the cruise control whenever possible I also set the limiter to something below the speed limit, to remind me to not go too fast (sometimes you find yourself speeding without even noticing because the road allows you to) I never drove more than ~5 hours straight and of course it all depends on the road conditions, crossing the Italian Alps toward Austria with snow it's not the same as cruising on German highways (where there's always some kind of fixing going on, so you aren't really going that fast) All in all the safest safety device right now is the human driving. But modern safety technologies are more than welcome , you can set a safety distance from the car in front of you, they follow the lines on the road so they actually can correct you if you make a mistake or are distracted, it got a lot better than the 90s where I drove my dad's car for 9 hours from my house to go snowboarding on the Alps. We were a gang of four and took turns.
    - dmitriid 5y ago
      It's a 4-5 hour drive. Yes, you may take a break (I do), but it will be liek a half-hour break, at most, and most available chargers (if they are available, in Europe), will give you what? 10 miles extra in that time? Add extra weight (luggage) or anything external (skis/snowboard on the roof rack), and boom, your effective range in an electric vehicle has gone down by a factor of 1.5 or more
      - speedgoose 5y ago
        Depends on the EV and the conditions of course but you can charge quite a lot during half an hour. Probably more than half a the range. It may actually be faster to do two shorter breaks with the current technology.
        dmitriid 5y ago
        > you can charge quite a lot during half an hour. Strictly depeds on the charger. Where I live, the vast majority of chargers are slow chargers, and all fast ones are usually occupied.
      - clouddrover 5y ago
        > you may take a break (I do), but it will be liek a half-hour break, at most, and most available chargers (if they are available, in Europe), will give you what? 10 miles extra in that time? Depends on the charger and the car. Ionity's chargers are 350 kW: https://ionity.eu/en/design-and-tech.html https://ionity.eu/en/design-and-tech.html And, for example, cars on Hyundai's E-GMP platform (currently Hyundai Ioniq 5, Kia EV6, and Genesis GV60) can charge 10 to 80% in 18 minutes: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0J46mG7I78Q https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0J46mG7I78Q https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WCqcqy29ZCc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WCqcqy29ZCc The Kia EV6's WLTP range is 528km so 80% of that is 422km. If we say the real world highway range is more like 400km then 80% would be 320 km.
        dmitriid 5y ago
        > Ionity's chargers are And their availability is?
    - ianai 5y ago
      In terms of parking at a charger, yes I drive that without taking a break. I mean I’m going shopping “in the city”. But that city only has one or two fast chargers for EVs and they’re very much out of the way and a little crime ridden for my comfort. We’ve also got a whole charging station going to waste apparently because it broke shortly after being built and not being brought back up. This isn’t what the future looks like if we’re replacing ICE vehicles with electrics. A driver needs to be able to pull into just about any commercial parking lot and find a fast charger. The most obvious would be wiring up the big box and grocery stores with fast chargers. But I’ve seen maybe a handful of those across three states. Oh btw I’m talking only about the US. It should be a known that the distances in the west US easily exceed those in the northeast and Europe on average.
      - patmorgan23 5y ago
        > This isn’t what the future looks like if we’re replacing ICE vehicles with electrics. A driver needs to be able to pull into just about any commercial parking lot and find a fast charger. The most obvious would be wiring up the big box and grocery stores with fast chargers. But I’ve seen maybe a handful of those across three states. Can you drive into just about any commerical parking lot and find a gas station to fill up with? We certainly need a much denser network of fast charging than exist today. But we don't even need to achieve the same density as our current gas refueling infrastructure because many people will be able to charge at home overnight. At some point apartment complexes will start to provide charging station for some or most of their residents. Remember most people will only need to charge to full once or twice a week.
- asplake 5y ago
  Who says that? Most people don’t pull trailers
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
  - speedgoose 5y ago
    People against EVs. Though they are less and less vocal. People do love trailers in Norway. It's actually a very important car feature, even though they need to pull a trailer once a year on average.
    - zemvpferreira 5y ago
      You don't need to be against EVs to be concerned about range. You can be pro EV and still be anxious that current ones won't fit your life situation. Let's not polarize unnecessarily.
      - speedgoose 5y ago
        True, but usually people asking for a lot of range are looking for arguments to dismiss EVs. It's very few people who actually need more range than what is offered today, assuming you have a charging network developed where you drive.
        zemvpferreira 5y ago
        In my experience this dismissive attitude you're talking about used to be much more common 5 years ago than it is now. Many people today want to go electric but are concerned about their own use case, and their expressions of range anxiety are personal concerns, not points of virtue. The way to ease them into it is to be a good role model, not to debated them on absolute terms. The paradigm has changed for the better.
      - cycomanic 5y ago
        The problem is that the range arguments are always brought as if they were a general use case. Most people will have maybe 1 or 2 trips a year that go over 500km in one trip. They still insist on buying a car for being able to do that trip, instead of buying a car for their general use case and renting a car for that one trip (if really necessary). Similar arguments for being able to transport 7 people, pulling a trailer, going off road etc.. People hardly ever need this they still buy cars because of this capability. Even disregarding electric cars, it doesn't make any economic sense.
- fallingknife 5y ago
  You know that drops your range in a gas car too, right?
  - Andys 5y ago
    Yes, but the full-range refill takes only a few minutes, and generally at a station that has room for you to refuel while a trailer is attached. There's still a ways to go.
- clouddrover 5y ago
  Towing is currently tedious with EVs. Not much range, not many chargers with pull through parking: https://www.thedrive.com/news/43320/how-an-electric-rivian-r1t-performs-while-towing-a-mustang-cross-country https://www.thedrive.com/news/43320/how-an-electric-rivian-r... Just more pull through parking at chargers would help a lot.
- dreamcompiler 5y ago
  At least two Tesla models have towing options (Models X and Y). Hills are not a big problem because you get some of the energy back when you go downhill again. The real issue is the air resistance of whatever you're towing, which you cannot regenerate. To mitigate this you drive slower and accept some range decrease.
- sveme 5y ago
  I think it‘s an understandable demand, no reason for snark. It‘s just that I want to replace my ICE and that‘s how I use it.
josephcsible 5y ago
> Alternatively 300km range added in about 15mins. Doesn't that already exist in cars that consumers already have? Can't the Lucid Air, Porsche Taycan, and all of the new Teslas (and probably more I'm not thinking of) all do that?

by sveme 5y ago

For me personally, it is 500km range under bad conditions, i.e., 120km/h speed and in winter. Alternatively 300km range added in about 15mins. Make such a stop after three hours anyway.

speedgoose 5y ago

You forgot to say that you need to pull a boat on a trailer and that you go uphill both ways. As they say, if an electric car can't do that, then they are not viable to anyone.

ianai 5y ago
Right. The current 300 mile target is fine for cities or more dense regions. But I routinely drive around 250 miles with large uphills regions in weather that requires AC. The uphill parts are like a 2x range cost compared with the rest.
- speedgoose 5y ago
  And you drive that much without taking a break?
  - peoplefromibiza 5y ago
    250 miles without breaks is not a big challenge. I routinely drove 400-500 kms without stopping when I toured Europe. Once on the highway you only have to go straight, anybody can do that. The only secret is to not make it a strict rule, if you feel like stopping, just stop.
    - speedgoose 5y ago
      It's actually unsafe. You have never been exposed to the communication campaign about taking breaks for safety ? You for example can see signs about this on the French motorways.
      - peoplefromibiza 5y ago
        it's unsafe if you don't stop when you feel the need to stop. Also: never drive long distances alone. I worked as a roadie in the music business, and I would never put in danger the 5-6 sometimes 9 people I had in the van with me, with all the equipment. I just drive at a regular pace around 100 kms/h and use the cruise control whenever possible I also set the limiter to something below the speed limit, to remind me to not go too fast (sometimes you find yourself speeding without even noticing because the road allows you to) I never drove more than ~5 hours straight and of course it all depends on the road conditions, crossing the Italian Alps toward Austria with snow it's not the same as cruising on German highways (where there's always some kind of fixing going on, so you aren't really going that fast) All in all the safest safety device right now is the human driving. But modern safety technologies are more than welcome , you can set a safety distance from the car in front of you, they follow the lines on the road so they actually can correct you if you make a mistake or are distracted, it got a lot better than the 90s where I drove my dad's car for 9 hours from my house to go snowboarding on the Alps. We were a gang of four and took turns.
  - dmitriid 5y ago
    It's a 4-5 hour drive. Yes, you may take a break (I do), but it will be liek a half-hour break, at most, and most available chargers (if they are available, in Europe), will give you what? 10 miles extra in that time? Add extra weight (luggage) or anything external (skis/snowboard on the roof rack), and boom, your effective range in an electric vehicle has gone down by a factor of 1.5 or more
    - speedgoose 5y ago
      Depends on the EV and the conditions of course but you can charge quite a lot during half an hour. Probably more than half a the range. It may actually be faster to do two shorter breaks with the current technology.
      - dmitriid 5y ago
        > you can charge quite a lot during half an hour. Strictly depeds on the charger. Where I live, the vast majority of chargers are slow chargers, and all fast ones are usually occupied.
    - clouddrover 5y ago
      > you may take a break (I do), but it will be liek a half-hour break, at most, and most available chargers (if they are available, in Europe), will give you what? 10 miles extra in that time? Depends on the charger and the car. Ionity's chargers are 350 kW: https://ionity.eu/en/design-and-tech.html https://ionity.eu/en/design-and-tech.html And, for example, cars on Hyundai's E-GMP platform (currently Hyundai Ioniq 5, Kia EV6, and Genesis GV60) can charge 10 to 80% in 18 minutes: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0J46mG7I78Q https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0J46mG7I78Q https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WCqcqy29ZCc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WCqcqy29ZCc The Kia EV6's WLTP range is 528km so 80% of that is 422km. If we say the real world highway range is more like 400km then 80% would be 320 km.
      - dmitriid 5y ago
        > Ionity's chargers are And their availability is?
  - ianai 5y ago
    In terms of parking at a charger, yes I drive that without taking a break. I mean I’m going shopping “in the city”. But that city only has one or two fast chargers for EVs and they’re very much out of the way and a little crime ridden for my comfort. We’ve also got a whole charging station going to waste apparently because it broke shortly after being built and not being brought back up. This isn’t what the future looks like if we’re replacing ICE vehicles with electrics. A driver needs to be able to pull into just about any commercial parking lot and find a fast charger. The most obvious would be wiring up the big box and grocery stores with fast chargers. But I’ve seen maybe a handful of those across three states. Oh btw I’m talking only about the US. It should be a known that the distances in the west US easily exceed those in the northeast and Europe on average.
    - patmorgan23 5y ago
      > This isn’t what the future looks like if we’re replacing ICE vehicles with electrics. A driver needs to be able to pull into just about any commercial parking lot and find a fast charger. The most obvious would be wiring up the big box and grocery stores with fast chargers. But I’ve seen maybe a handful of those across three states. Can you drive into just about any commerical parking lot and find a gas station to fill up with? We certainly need a much denser network of fast charging than exist today. But we don't even need to achieve the same density as our current gas refueling infrastructure because many people will be able to charge at home overnight. At some point apartment complexes will start to provide charging station for some or most of their residents. Remember most people will only need to charge to full once or twice a week.
asplake 5y ago
Who says that? Most people don’t pull trailers
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- speedgoose 5y ago
  People against EVs. Though they are less and less vocal. People do love trailers in Norway. It's actually a very important car feature, even though they need to pull a trailer once a year on average.
  - zemvpferreira 5y ago
    You don't need to be against EVs to be concerned about range. You can be pro EV and still be anxious that current ones won't fit your life situation. Let's not polarize unnecessarily.
    - speedgoose 5y ago
      True, but usually people asking for a lot of range are looking for arguments to dismiss EVs. It's very few people who actually need more range than what is offered today, assuming you have a charging network developed where you drive.
      - zemvpferreira 5y ago
        In my experience this dismissive attitude you're talking about used to be much more common 5 years ago than it is now. Many people today want to go electric but are concerned about their own use case, and their expressions of range anxiety are personal concerns, not points of virtue. The way to ease them into it is to be a good role model, not to debated them on absolute terms. The paradigm has changed for the better.
    - cycomanic 5y ago
      The problem is that the range arguments are always brought as if they were a general use case. Most people will have maybe 1 or 2 trips a year that go over 500km in one trip. They still insist on buying a car for being able to do that trip, instead of buying a car for their general use case and renting a car for that one trip (if really necessary). Similar arguments for being able to transport 7 people, pulling a trailer, going off road etc.. People hardly ever need this they still buy cars because of this capability. Even disregarding electric cars, it doesn't make any economic sense.
fallingknife 5y ago
You know that drops your range in a gas car too, right?
- Andys 5y ago
  Yes, but the full-range refill takes only a few minutes, and generally at a station that has room for you to refuel while a trailer is attached. There's still a ways to go.
clouddrover 5y ago
Towing is currently tedious with EVs. Not much range, not many chargers with pull through parking: https://www.thedrive.com/news/43320/how-an-electric-rivian-r1t-performs-while-towing-a-mustang-cross-country https://www.thedrive.com/news/43320/how-an-electric-rivian-r... Just more pull through parking at chargers would help a lot.
dreamcompiler 5y ago
At least two Tesla models have towing options (Models X and Y). Hills are not a big problem because you get some of the energy back when you go downhill again. The real issue is the air resistance of whatever you're towing, which you cannot regenerate. To mitigate this you drive slower and accept some range decrease.
sveme 5y ago
I think it‘s an understandable demand, no reason for snark. It‘s just that I want to replace my ICE and that‘s how I use it.

josephcsible 5y ago

> Alternatively 300km range added in about 15mins. Doesn't that already exist in cars that consumers already have? Can't the Lucid Air, Porsche Taycan, and all of the new Teslas (and probably more I'm not thinking of) all do that?