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I think the most important thing to know about PhDs is that you get paid to get them. Personally, I didn’t understand how people could afford to stay in school

I think the most important thing to know about PhDs is that you get paid to get them. Personally, I didn’t understand how people could afford to stay in school so long. I regularly tell Uber drivers this just to spread the PhD ambition.

jhbadger 5y ago
Exactly. A lot of people unfamiliar with graduate school assume that it is like professional schools (law & medicine) where you actually have to pay (sometimes more than 100K all told for a degree over several years). Graduate stipends may be stingy, but at least you don't end up in debt from it.
- noahtallen 5y ago
  > sometimes more than 100K all told for a degree over several years Is it even possible to get a medical or law degree for less than 100k these days without rare scholarships and grants? Even a shorter 12 quarter program still runs around $11k a quarter. And even then the school can’t be bothered to pay for basic supplies and equipment you’re required to get, nor for the thousand-dollar licensing exams. And they still expect to get paid for that one quarter you go offsite to do unpaid work for some other provider to get real-world experience. What a racket. (It’s probably obviously I’m peeved about a specific case :p)
  - Ekaros 5y ago
    Medicine I can kinda understand at least part of it. But law? That should be pretty cheap to provide. It doesn't change overly much and it is just books. You could probably video entire lecture series and just replay them... It is not like they need some sort of lab work with expensive equipment.
    - HarryHirsch 5y ago
      In 2005, before the Great Recession there were plans at many universities to institute law schools, as you say the costs are low, you need a library and a bunch of lecturers, and you would have a profit center for the institution. Trouble is, there has been an oversupply of lawyers. Salary distribution is bimodal, biglaw pays entirely different than smalltown law, and with a degree from a random backwater it's guaranteed that you'll never make it into biglaw. Those plans would have been an invitation for students to get into debt that they'd never be able to repay. (We are seeing a re-run, this time with pharmacy schools.) Medicine is a cost center for universities, so medical degrees are expensive. But in a functioning society you need physicians, and no medical graduate with a choice will settle in rural Mississippi. What I'm saying here is that education as a market is not a good model to have.
  - andi999 5y ago
    Is this a US centric question? Otherwise the answer is, yes of course.
zoe4883 5y ago
Does it actually cover expenses? From what I read stipend does not even cover rent in expensive university towns. I could study on tropical island, be unemployed, party every day and still have better disposable income.
- dr_dshiv 5y ago
  Of course it depends, but yes.
- tylermenezes 5y ago
  My fiancee is getting her PhD in physical chemistry and is paid well enough to afford rent and food and the occasional nice thing. It's actually just a little under the median household income for the area, so theoretically it's doable even with kids, though that speaks more to the level of poverty in Philadelphia.
drnonsense42 5y ago
I think it’s important to note that it’s a little misleading to think of it as being paid to go to school. In most cases, especially past your first year and unless you’re on some special grant, you are paid because you are working for your advisor on his research projects. You have a boss telling you what to code and they will have a large say in what you’re working on.
- dr_dshiv 5y ago
  Maybe better to say “getting paid to get a degree?” In any case, whatever the downsides, I’d wager that the majority of people don’t know that you get paid to get phds. I don’t think that is misleading.
- chrisseaton 5y ago
  > you are paid because you are working for your advisor on his research projects Ideally you're working on your own research project, not someone else's.
  - drnonsense42 5y ago
    I agree, that’s ideal when that option is available. Typically that project will be strictly within the confines of a grant and heavily influenced by your advisor, unless you’re lucky (or unlucky) and they’re extremely hands off.
mFixman 5y ago
I'm actually curious whether that is always the truth. I've been in the industry for several years and made enough savings to cover my current lifestyle for a long time while also paying a significant stipent to a university. Would it make sense to consider good PhDs where I wouldn't be able to get a salary, or are they always 100% scams?
- dr_dshiv 5y ago
  If you can truly afford it and they are an accredited school, I think it’s a great idea.
- HarryHirsch 5y ago
  In the sciences, if the advanced degree does not come with a stipend it is guaranteed to be a scam. Grants, which the advisor is expected to have, come with salaries for graduate students.
  - dr_dshiv 5y ago
    Sure, but why not allow a person to fund their own PhD? It might allow more people from industry to develop ideas that they bring into the sciences.
    - Beldin 5y ago
      I cannot speak for others, but I don't have objections to my students paying their own way. The two things I'll insist on are: - subject matches my interest, - we seem to get along. Okay, I'll probably also insist on a few practical things (sufficient time to keep some pace, awareness of what conference attendance costs, satisfies the institution's phd programme entry requirements, etc). But other than that: sure!

jhbadger 5y ago

Exactly. A lot of people unfamiliar with graduate school assume that it is like professional schools (law & medicine) where you actually have to pay (sometimes more than 100K all told for a degree over several years). Graduate stipends may be stingy, but at least you don't end up in debt from it.

noahtallen 5y ago
> sometimes more than 100K all told for a degree over several years Is it even possible to get a medical or law degree for less than 100k these days without rare scholarships and grants? Even a shorter 12 quarter program still runs around $11k a quarter. And even then the school can’t be bothered to pay for basic supplies and equipment you’re required to get, nor for the thousand-dollar licensing exams. And they still expect to get paid for that one quarter you go offsite to do unpaid work for some other provider to get real-world experience. What a racket. (It’s probably obviously I’m peeved about a specific case :p)
- Ekaros 5y ago
  Medicine I can kinda understand at least part of it. But law? That should be pretty cheap to provide. It doesn't change overly much and it is just books. You could probably video entire lecture series and just replay them... It is not like they need some sort of lab work with expensive equipment.
  - HarryHirsch 5y ago
    In 2005, before the Great Recession there were plans at many universities to institute law schools, as you say the costs are low, you need a library and a bunch of lecturers, and you would have a profit center for the institution. Trouble is, there has been an oversupply of lawyers. Salary distribution is bimodal, biglaw pays entirely different than smalltown law, and with a degree from a random backwater it's guaranteed that you'll never make it into biglaw. Those plans would have been an invitation for students to get into debt that they'd never be able to repay. (We are seeing a re-run, this time with pharmacy schools.) Medicine is a cost center for universities, so medical degrees are expensive. But in a functioning society you need physicians, and no medical graduate with a choice will settle in rural Mississippi. What I'm saying here is that education as a market is not a good model to have.
- andi999 5y ago
  Is this a US centric question? Otherwise the answer is, yes of course.

zoe4883 5y ago

Does it actually cover expenses? From what I read stipend does not even cover rent in expensive university towns. I could study on tropical island, be unemployed, party every day and still have better disposable income.

dr_dshiv 5y ago
Of course it depends, but yes.
tylermenezes 5y ago
My fiancee is getting her PhD in physical chemistry and is paid well enough to afford rent and food and the occasional nice thing. It's actually just a little under the median household income for the area, so theoretically it's doable even with kids, though that speaks more to the level of poverty in Philadelphia.

drnonsense42 5y ago

I think it’s important to note that it’s a little misleading to think of it as being paid to go to school. In most cases, especially past your first year and unless you’re on some special grant, you are paid because you are working for your advisor on his research projects. You have a boss telling you what to code and they will have a large say in what you’re working on.

dr_dshiv 5y ago
Maybe better to say “getting paid to get a degree?” In any case, whatever the downsides, I’d wager that the majority of people don’t know that you get paid to get phds. I don’t think that is misleading.
chrisseaton 5y ago
> you are paid because you are working for your advisor on his research projects Ideally you're working on your own research project, not someone else's.
- drnonsense42 5y ago
  I agree, that’s ideal when that option is available. Typically that project will be strictly within the confines of a grant and heavily influenced by your advisor, unless you’re lucky (or unlucky) and they’re extremely hands off.

mFixman 5y ago

I'm actually curious whether that is always the truth. I've been in the industry for several years and made enough savings to cover my current lifestyle for a long time while also paying a significant stipent to a university. Would it make sense to consider good PhDs where I wouldn't be able to get a salary, or are they always 100% scams?

dr_dshiv 5y ago
If you can truly afford it and they are an accredited school, I think it’s a great idea.
HarryHirsch 5y ago
In the sciences, if the advanced degree does not come with a stipend it is guaranteed to be a scam. Grants, which the advisor is expected to have, come with salaries for graduate students.
- dr_dshiv 5y ago
  Sure, but why not allow a person to fund their own PhD? It might allow more people from industry to develop ideas that they bring into the sciences.
  - Beldin 5y ago
    I cannot speak for others, but I don't have objections to my students paying their own way. The two things I'll insist on are: - subject matches my interest, - we seem to get along. Okay, I'll probably also insist on a few practical things (sufficient time to keep some pace, awareness of what conference attendance costs, satisfies the institution's phd programme entry requirements, etc). But other than that: sure!